I'm ok with the electoral college.

A pure popular vote would not be a good idea in today's society. If that were the case, candidates would focus all their time and energy in higher population centers, and generally ignore more rural America since those areas wouldn't garner as many votes.

The electoral college does create something similar to the extent that candidates focus on the swing states more than their 'safe' states, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as a straight popular vote would be.

When times change,and the country feels that Democrats are messing things up, the independent vote will swing to the Republican side.

When times change again, and the country feels that the Republicans are screwing things up, the independent vote will swing back to the Democrats.

lol Ok I stand corrected... I can agree with that assessment.

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LETS GO BUFFALO!

That's a ridiculous question.
I don't favor any change that would benefit any one party over another.
Why would anyone?

How about this...
I suggest a "reform" that involves giving Republicans the sole responsibility of drawing district lines.
Do you not support that reform because it doesn't favor your preferred party?

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Hold my beer and watch this...

That's not the same thing. Who's to say in a few years the majority of third party groups won't lean right and steal elections away from Republicans. IRV would help alleviate the effects of "vote-spoling" on either party.

Hell, I'm sure there are many districts and municipalities where two conservative candidates split the republican vote thus giving victory to a democrat.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

"Fair" would be not having to continue to give out money to people who have done nothing to earn it. Also, why isn't there a requirement of volunteer hours that need to be completed in order to receive welfare, food stamps, other free shit, etc? If these people don't have jobs and aren't doing anything except mooching, shouldn't they at least be cleaning up city streets, picking up trash in a park, or something to earn what they're given?

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

Is this sarcasm?? I missed crosses last sarcastic post, and I'm just checking before I tear this to shreds.

Half sarcasm, half serious. But really though, if someone is collecting benefits from society and is not gainfully employed, shouldn't they be doing something to return the favor and improve said society that is helping them? That seems "fair" to me.

Lets say I ask you to borrow $20 and you have the money to do it so you loan me the money. Now, when the shoe is on the other foot and you need to borrow $20, I would look like a dick for not helping you would I not?

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

Ok, the idea of welfare is to help a fellow American get on their feet so they can become productive people, not to "give them free shit".

In practice, plenty of folks use it for the 'free shit'.

Years ago when I was working EMS, I'd be busting my ass for $7.25/hr, working 60+ hours a week just to get by in my one room apartment. I'd get a 911 call over in the Langfield projects in Buffalo where some guy on public assistance (it is a housing project) was living better than I was. $4000 big screen TV, leather furniture, SUV out front, etc, etc.

There are people that public assistance does help. There are also those that game the system hard.

What does that have to do with voter reform?

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

Well, if the government hasn't figured out a way to stop them yet, then we need to use social mores on them. That scumbag can watch his nice tv all by his lonely self. The way I see it, this guy is STEALING resources from people who really need them.

Okee, off to work, good discussions guys.

I'm ALL for helping someone who wants to help themselves, which is why I have no issues with paying for unemployment. I am NOT for helping someone who does nothing, and wants to do nothing, to better themselves or their situation though. Positively reinforcing a negative behavior by rewarding someone for doing nothing creates a very unhealthy reliance on one's fellow man. Help? Of course. Put good money after bad? No thanks

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

My wife's Grandmother was born and raised in Indonesia and spent her adult life in mainland China.
She moved here in the early '80's after she retired.
She collects Social Security, Medicare and is in government subsidized housing.

She never paid $0.01 of income taxes or into Social Security.

I'd call that "giving people free shit".

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Hey my brother man, can you spare a dime? Or better yet, can you spare me 40 grand so I can live this year?
Not very nice of you not to let me play my xbox or playstation.
I'm just a guy down on his luck, I'll snap out of it, just about the time retirement rolls around

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Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.

Haha, niiiiiice

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

I hate to burst too many bubbles, but the government(and it's programs) are YOUR responsibility. Voting for the guy who wants to cut the programs is the wrong option, and voting for the guy who wants it to remain as it stands is wrong. YOUR job is to elect a person who offers fixes for the problems with the programs. I don't want to get personal with you xc, but you brought it up. You need to place shame(the oldest corrective device known to man) on people(grandmom-in-law) who abuse systems set up to help those in need. If anyone here knows anyone on disability, or welfare who abuses the system, they need to report the person, and shame them in the public eye.


btw, I never said that they don't give away "free shit". I SAID the idea is to help people, not give away shit.

Kneegrow, I think we all pretty much agree with your sentiment that we help one another when in need, and that abuses are wrong.

YEAY! I win!

In honesty though, "shaming" someone into not abusing social welfare programs assumes that these people have the ability to feel ashamed. Someone that is abusing programs designed to help the less fortunate HAS no shame and therefore this tactic won't work. You give some of these scummy people too much credit. It's easy to see your heart is in the right place Daz, but I think your vision of this might be be blurred because you are looking at this topic through the eyes of a respectable, taxpaying, law-abiding citizen which dirtbags like this cannot comprehend. What would work for me and you, and most of us here (public shame an humiliation) does not work for these kind of people, because that fuzzy scum between your toes after taking off your gym socks - ie these types of people - cannot be humiliated, they could care less what other people think of them as long as these people pay their way.

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking