i am picking out this sentence because i hear it too often. i am a scientist. an ecologist. and i of course believe in evolution. and i believe in god. it's not having your cake and eating it too.


my favorite quote of all time is: "religion without science is foolish, and science without religion is lame."

abiogenesis (the scientific theory of how life started) has such incredibly low odds of happening (literally, like one in one google google google chances) of happening. any scientist will tell you those odds are a zero. and to have everything fall into place so well and end up so perfect for four billion years...well, someone's there. and yes, god created the earth in seven days. seven god days - which could be hundreds of millions of years... who's to say he didn't just let the ball roll, because he knew what was going to happen?

i could (and have) written papers on this. it just irks me to insinuate that religion people can't believe in science. and you may not have been trying to do that, but that's how i took it. and i'm not offended, and my answer was not to offend you. just a place for me to get on my soapbox, i guess.

Tell all that to the folks running the Creationism Museum, Pat. I'm sure they'll enjoy your level-headed and mature take on these things (that was sarcasm, but my respect for your view is not).

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mechaphil

ahhhh, see, here you're only picking one side. i think that the Creationist Museum folks are just as silly as those scientists that ignore the distinct probability that there is some higher power. because the MOST minuscule chance (literally...there will never be a lower number) exists that life began with an electric shock and a mix of heat and pressure, the idea that there is a chance there is something (omnipotent and omnipresent) orchestrating that very effect is nullfied. how silly is that?

i hate the NRA and i hate PETA, too. extremist groups only exist because their opposite does. see Newton's third law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s ... al_actions), and use personality instead of force.

Taken to PM.

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When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

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Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13

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LETS GO BUFFALO!

I just wanted an answer (if anyone had one) to blending two beliefs in one family. Your soap box shenanigans are not only completely inappropriate but also most obviously falling on deaf ears. I'm worried about my children's potential confusion, not your lame argument about religion and science being able to have love babies and how my skepticism offends your sensibilities.

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DF, to answer your question:

To me, it is only reasonable to let your kids decide for themselves. My parents pushed neither side on me and let me form my own opinions. My father is agnostic/atheist ish and mother is a cafeteria catholic. My fathers father (that'd make him my grandpa I suppose lol) was a presbyterian minister.

I have a younger brother who has been raised much more of a Christian than I am. My Grandma has taken him to church with her for a while, however he's starting to question it now and is now joining the dark side (as a 12 year old, he's made up his mind much faster than I did) as a secular humanist.

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When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

you could very well use the biblical teaching as moral stories/lessons instead of being "the word." your kid can believe in the big bang and evolution and all that and use the Genesis story as a lesson in betrayal.

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Check out my website: http://www.artistzero.com

"That wasn't very nice...I do believe you killed my hat."

Driver of the FIRE LINDY RUFF Bandwagon since 2008.

i never said you were wrong. and my intention was never to sway your opinion concerning your children one way or the other. i know plenty of great people the are and aren't religious, and i'm sure you do too.

if you took my response to one clip of your enitre post as a sleight against you, that's fine- but it wasn't intended to be that way. i don't see where i judged you in any shape or form, and if i did, i apologize.

i'm not sure why you've decided that what i wrote was me being a dick, but nothing was supposed to be meant the way it seems you've perceived it.

i want to be clear that i never meant to insinuate that you were "wrong" in any manner, at any point. i actually respect the topic of your original post, because you're allowing your child to pick for themselves, and not shoving them into church or shunning them from it because of one reason or another.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

That's something that we have talked about. I think something that makes it easier for us is that my wife believes that God was responsible for the initial spark of the Big Bang and that he intend everything to progress from there. She doesn't believe in the Adam and Eve version of creation or the 6 days of making the universe and the whole thing being only several thousand years old. That makes it a heck of a lot easier to meet in the middle so to speak than say for example if she was more of a literal translation of the Bible type of gal. There are a lot of great lessons int he Bible about morality, respect, trust etc. I suspect from talking with her that everything in the Bible minus Jesus being real and God being at the heart of things will be taught as a story or fable rather than a historical fact. Like Captain said it will be a lot less pushing and more of offering two choices to them from which they will decide along the road to adulthood. Thanks guys.

And Pat, the whole point of asking about this was to get an answer about helping my family. You immediately jumped on me for what you thought was suggesting that religious folks didn't believe in science. Your response was just an argument waiting to happen and was unnecessary. That to me is a "dick" move. I laid out my beliefs and my wife's as a way to give you a context for my question and you pounced on it.

For the record: I have a lot of respect for people in general and when it comes to religious beliefs I don't attack anyone for their personal choices. Now as soon as a religious person attacks me for my personal beliefs on the other hand, then I have no problem what so ever with taking off the gloves. I don't have any patience for people who push their beliefs on others regardless of what camp they stand in and I certainly don't respect anyone who attacks someone else for no reason. Way too often religious people feel they have a "right" to spread the Word around which all too frequently is done by telling people how wrong they are. The funny thing is when anyone else tells them they may be wrong it is viewed as a personal attack and is way out of line...well it runs both ways. We need a heck of a lot more respect from all sides of the religious debate including non-believers and believers. When I posted that question I was respectful and expected the same. What I got was a "How dare you blah blah blah".

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Let's all try to take a deep breath. I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to offend or disrespect anyone else here.

I agree.

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i don't remember challenging you at all, DF- in fact, i don't see where i was even disrespectful. and i know i don't remember trying to be disrespectful... i even stated that my post was not trying to offend you. believe me, if i was trying to piss you off, i would have done a lot better with it. ask the people who have seen me post for the 3.5 years i've been active in the sabres forums. i didn't try to SELL you my beliefs...i think you just took everything i said the wrong way and ran with it. i was not inflammatory at all. i didn't use "upset" language. i probably shouldn't have quoted you, because that's probably what set you off. and no, you don't know me at all, but you sure were quick to start insinuate that i'm a douche and what have you. oh well.

this is all water under the bridge for me, anyways. i hope you can identify the best way to raise your child between faiths. and, no, that's not a sleight...i genuinely hope that you can find the best parental route that will satisfy what you want out of the ordeal.