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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Vanek is still in rough shape. He looked tender in practice, and probably won't play tomorrow night. At first, it's disappointing. But after putting some thought into it, I think this will be an advantage for the Sabres IF he can return in game 6.

Overcoming a 3-1 series deficit is no easy task. You have to outwork and outplay a team that smells and tastes blood. While not impossible, it's improbable.

In order for such an upset to happen, I personally believe there has to be certain factors that give the desperate team the extra boosts they need to get each win.

So here are the games, logically thought out.


Game 5 - The Sabres are facing elimination, at home. This alone should be enough motivation to come out and get the win, especially after the way game 4 was ripped away from them by the officials. Die another day. Refuse to lose 4 in a row.

Game 6 - The most difficult of the final 3 games for Buffalo. Boston has a chance to advance on home ice, and they are going to come out flying. Almost all teams falter here. Having Vanek return for THIS game would give the Sabres the energy and confidence boost they need to come out with a very, very close win in Boston.

Game 7 - Should they finally make it here, they've got to be fired up. They're on home ice after a huge two games to tie the series. Boston would be on their heels, nervous about losing twice in a row and having to clinch in Buffalo. The crowd would be ravenous. Take it and advance.

If Vanek comes back for Friday night, he's not playing 100% and the Sabres barely survive, they're screwed for game 6.

Give him that extra rest, and give the team the extra boost they need in game 6 by having him return then.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Just win Game 5, that's all I'm asking for right now. One game. Do it.

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Los9090
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Good call, hopefully the hockey gods will let Vanek play. But a good point there.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:43 pm 
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If the Sabres have enough desperation to win without Vanek in game 5, you would hope they would have enough desperation to win with OR without him in game 6 AND game 7.

Vanek at 60% is better than Vanek in the press box. They don't have the luxury of sitting him an extra game when they are staring elimination in the face.

If he can go, he goes.


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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
If the Sabres have enough desperation to win without Vanek in game 5, you would hope they would have enough desperation to win with OR without him in game 6 AND game 7.

Vanek at 60% is better than Vanek in the press box. They don't have the luxury of sitting him an extra game when they are staring elimination in the face.

If he can go, he goes.


Not according to Ruff.

Vanek at 75%, in a series like this one, is not good enough to play. And I agree with him.

That's why that extra time off would be good for him. The Sabres can hold it down at home.

When they head off to Boston, and Vanek is good enough to come back and play, that would get them all riled up about their chances to force game 7.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:51 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
That's why that extra time off would be good for him. The Sabres can hold it down at home.

When they head off to Boston, and Vanek is good enough to come back and play, that would get them all riled up about their chances to force game 7.


There's no guarantee of this. They didn't hold down game 2 at home.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:52 pm 
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They had game 2 on lock, if I'm not mistaken, until he was taken out.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:58 pm 
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That is true.

However , this entire scenario is predicated on a game 5 win. This is never an automatic in sports, and you cannot just assume that they'll win because they're at home. They've already shown they can lose here.

If Vanek isn't healthy enough to play, then he shouldn't play. If he IS healthy enough to play, then he should play. It makes no logical sense to sit your best offensive threat in the press box to 'save' him for the next game, when there are no guarantees there will even be a next game.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
That is true.

However , this entire scenario is predicated on a game 5 win. This is never an automatic in sports, and you cannot just assume that they'll win because they're at home. They've already shown they can lose here.

If Vanek isn't healthy enough to play, then he shouldn't play. If he IS healthy enough to play, then he should play. It makes no logical sense to sit your best offensive threat in the press box to 'save' him for the next game, when there are no guarantees there will even be a next game.

I don't argue that sentiment at all; however, if theres a possibility of him exacerbating the injury, then he should not play.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
That is true.

However , this entire scenario is predicated on a game 5 win. This is never an automatic in sports, and you cannot just assume that they'll win because they're at home. They've already shown they can lose here.

If Vanek isn't healthy enough to play, then he shouldn't play. If he IS healthy enough to play, then he should play. It makes no logical sense to sit your best offensive threat in the press box to 'save' him for the next game, when there are no guarantees there will even be a next game.


I'm not saying hold him out purely on this idea that a game 6 return would be better.

I'm saying injury wise, if he isn't well enough to go in game 5, it could be beneficial to us in the way that I explained above.

I do believe that if Vanek isn't 90% or better tomorrow, he shouldn't play. Game 6 on the other hand... different story.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:34 pm 
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VANEK IS POUNDING AWAY AT ZDENO CHARA WITH RIGHT AFTER RIGHT!

HE LOOKS LIKE A COMBINATION OF MIKE TYSON, THE GUY FROM GLADIATOR AND SUGAR RAY EVERYTHING!

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N3M
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:00 pm 
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If he's not at 90%+ he could be destroyed with another hit (for the entire playoffs) easily I guess; and for fuck's sake he's gonna be even slower than usual if his ankle is still hurting. :think:


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Los9090
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:09 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Squanto wrote:
That is true.

However , this entire scenario is predicated on a game 5 win. This is never an automatic in sports, and you cannot just assume that they'll win because they're at home. They've already shown they can lose here.

If Vanek isn't healthy enough to play, then he shouldn't play. If he IS healthy enough to play, then he should play. It makes no logical sense to sit your best offensive threat in the press box to 'save' him for the next game, when there are no guarantees there will even be a next game.


I'm not saying hold him out purely on this idea that a game 6 return would be better.

I'm saying injury wise, if he isn't well enough to go in game 5, it could be beneficial to us in the way that I explained above.

I do believe that if Vanek isn't 90% or better tomorrow, he shouldn't play. Game 6 on the other hand... different story.

I like Squanto's take on "60% Vanek is better than no Vanek" but I fear that he won't be as effective if he wasn't at at least "90%". So we'll see.

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Sk8haggard9
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:59 pm 
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The fact that we have 2 days in between games 5 and 6 is also another reason. If he were to play Friday at 60% he may stay at 60% for game 6, monday. If he takes more time off to recover and the Sabres win game 5, we may have a Vanek around the 75-80% range for game 6 on the road.


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patkane88
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:40 pm 
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Well considering the only game they won was when Vanek played so....................

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powerplayer
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:14 pm 
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It's funny to see people trying to quantify Vanek's readiness:

if he's 60%
if he's 75-80%
etc.etc.

What do these figures even mean or represent? What criteria are you using for this analysis?

Let's be honest, a Vanek at 60% may be a lot worse than a much less talented replacement who's at 100%. We're not talking about Ovechkin here (and even Ovie at 60% may be well below par quality for play).

Considering the edge players need in the postseason, especially in THIS series, Vanek needs to be reeeeaaaal close to 100% to help the team. Anything less than that and we have another Connolly standing around.


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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:19 pm 
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powerplayer wrote:
It's funny to see people trying to quantify Vanek's readiness:

if he's 60%
if he's 75-80%
etc.etc.

What do these figures even mean or represent? What criteria are you using for this analysis?

Let's be honest, a Vanek at 60% may be a lot worse than a much less talented replacement who's at 100%. We're not talking about Ovechkin here (and even Ovie at 60% may be well below par quality for play).

Considering the edge players need in the postseason, especially in THIS series, Vanek needs to be reeeeaaaal close to 100% to help the team. Anything less than that and we have another Connolly standing around.


Which is why I say 90% or better. :D

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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:23 pm 
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I've said it a few times already. The damage is done. Unless Vanek is actually healthy and gets a week of practice, he won't be effective enough to justify a start. Just like powerplayer said (and I've said), he'll look like Connolly if he forces himself back on the ice. A bunch of people are jumping on Connolly, but what are these guys supposed to do?

I can say from MUCH personal experience through playing with injuries that you can only do so much. "Sucking it up" does not bring your speed and agility back, it only makes you do what your body is now capable of through the pain. I've played (and worked) through quite a few knee, ankle, and foot injuries, from broken feet and toes to severe knee and ankle sprains and surgery. You WANT to do more but your body can't do it. It's a very frustrating feeling when your brain says "go" but your body doesn't respond. It takes time...a lot more time and patience than most casual fans without playing experience seem to have.


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SabresFanInNebraska
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:23 am 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Vanek is still in rough shape. He looked tender in practice, and probably won't play tomorrow night. At first, it's disappointing. But after putting some thought into it, I think this will be an advantage for the Sabres IF he can return in game 6.

Overcoming a 3-1 series deficit is no easy task. You have to outwork and outplay a team that smells and tastes blood. While not impossible, it's improbable.

In order for such an upset to happen, I personally believe there has to be certain factors that give the desperate team the extra boosts they need to get each win.

So here are the games, logically thought out.


Game 5 - The Sabres are facing elimination, at home. This alone should be enough motivation to come out and get the win, especially after the way game 4 was ripped away from them by the officials. Die another day. Refuse to lose 4 in a row.

Game 6 - The most difficult of the final 3 games for Buffalo. Boston has a chance to advance on home ice, and they are going to come out flying. Almost all teams falter here. Having Vanek return for THIS game would give the Sabres the energy and confidence boost they need to come out with a very, very close win in Boston.

Game 7 - Should they finally make it here, they've got to be fired up. They're on home ice after a huge two games to tie the series. Boston would be on their heels, nervous about losing twice in a row and having to clinch in Buffalo. The crowd would be ravenous. Take it and advance.

If Vanek comes back for Friday night, he's not playing 100% and the Sabres barely survive, they're screwed for game 6.

Give him that extra rest, and give the team the extra boost they need in game 6 by having him return then.








It's sickening how much I agree with your train of thought.


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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:21 am 
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SabresFanInNebraska wrote:
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Vanek is still in rough shape. He looked tender in practice, and probably won't play tomorrow night. At first, it's disappointing. But after putting some thought into it, I think this will be an advantage for the Sabres IF he can return in game 6.

Overcoming a 3-1 series deficit is no easy task. You have to outwork and outplay a team that smells and tastes blood. While not impossible, it's improbable.

In order for such an upset to happen, I personally believe there has to be certain factors that give the desperate team the extra boosts they need to get each win.

So here are the games, logically thought out.


Game 5 - The Sabres are facing elimination, at home. This alone should be enough motivation to come out and get the win, especially after the way game 4 was ripped away from them by the officials. Die another day. Refuse to lose 4 in a row.

Game 6 - The most difficult of the final 3 games for Buffalo. Boston has a chance to advance on home ice, and they are going to come out flying. Almost all teams falter here. Having Vanek return for THIS game would give the Sabres the energy and confidence boost they need to come out with a very, very close win in Boston.

Game 7 - Should they finally make it here, they've got to be fired up. They're on home ice after a huge two games to tie the series. Boston would be on their heels, nervous about losing twice in a row and having to clinch in Buffalo. The crowd would be ravenous. Take it and advance.

If Vanek comes back for Friday night, he's not playing 100% and the Sabres barely survive, they're screwed for game 6.

Give him that extra rest, and give the team the extra boost they need in game 6 by having him return then.








It's sickening how much I agree with your train of thought.


Cool. You can stick around. Haha

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