Gigolo != Juggalo

DF...those practices happen outside the Taliban control as well...Saudi Arabia and UAE are both rich, developed nations harboring many of the same oppressive regimes against women.



http://www.freedomszone.com/archives/20 ... _in_pl.php

Google "Muslim stoned in Europe" About 298,000 results

IMO the fact that they're bringing their culture with them to western countries is the entire problem.
Islam and secular Europe are fundamentally incompatible.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

Fuck this. It's their business. Quite frankly, people think balls on their truck is cool and I find it grossly idiotic. Let them wear what they want and MIND YOUR OWN FUCKIN BUSINESS.

B&Y has spoken.

_________________
"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

except many of the women are forced to wear it under threat of physical violence or death....yes, even in France.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

I want to think he was being sarcastic like usual, but I dunno about this time.

_________________
mechaphil

ahh, my sarcasm-meter has shit for brains.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

I know it happens outside of the Taliban run areas of the Middle East and it's terrible. All I'm trying to get at is that the question of the burqa being a sign of repression is two sided. In one respect it's bullshit that women have to wear them and on the other hand it's none of our fucking business and not our place to do anything about it. I personally would love to liberate Jews from their terribly oppressive bacon free diet but who am I to question that shit? The Muslim men will either come to respect women or they won't, nothing we make into law will help but instead only make them shut out Western values even more. Didn't know about the stonings, but in general Muslim women who live outside of the Middle East experience a much higher societal role and treatment (not that they are even close to being on par with Western woman's rights).

Also there are many more women who don't wear the burqa than do when it comes to emigrants of the Middle East (only about 30% of Muslim women outside of the Middle East do) so shit is changing for the better. I disagree with all kinds of shit various religions do to their people ranging from teaching creation bullshit in school to knocking on my damn door on Saturday mornings and from having a tax exempt status to not letting women be equals in the church. It's just that it's not anyone's place to tell them they have to stop or they are misguided and if anyone thinks that it helps to tell them is fooling themselves. "Hey Mormon lady...I think you need to stop letting those other chicks bang your husband!" I'm pretty sure she's gonna tell me to pound sand even though in my mind it's fucked up.

_________________

I know there's no easy answers, but I was raised by a staunch feminist (a real feminist, not the man hating abortion lovers we have now) and I just cannot swallow this as acceptable.

The Muslims are the ones who moved into western society, so the obligation to make societal concessions is on them, not the other way around IMO.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

Wait, Western society accepts anyone. Why are we saying they need to take it off? What business is it of ours? It's not hurting a soul. She wears a veil, the world goes on. She takes it off, the world goes on. If she wants to wear it it's HER individual choice.

But, here's the thing. I GUARANTEE, if I were to walk around with a veil on, I wouldn't get assaulted. I'm a man, but that's a bad example.

Say an American women walks around with it on and wears other American clothes. No one would give a shit! It's all about what race they are, obviously. It's

YEAH

RACIST.

_________________
"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

seriously...9/10

I wrote a response to some of that.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

Uhm, what does racism have to do with this? I'm not even being a prick;I'm legitimately curious where that racism argument is gonna go.

_________________
mechaphil

Societal conventions? Seriously? So you'd support an initiative to have immigrants leave any religious beliefs or cultural practices that offend our Western sensibilities behind them before they hit our shores? We're not making concessions by tolerating a culture or a religious people, we're abiding by the ideals our founding fathers built our country on.

Anyone saying this "burqa ban" is a way to liberate women are hiding behind that to veil their own fears and hatred towards Islam. Have you ever spoken to a Muslim woman who said "Yeah these things suck and I wish they would ban them!"? No of course you haven't but they MUST want to be freed from wearing them right? There can't possibly be a religious, cultural, environmental, historical or other reason these women would want to actually wear them that could challenge or out weigh our Western beliefs of equality and morality. The bottom line is people are afraid and confused and now they are once again hiding behind patriotism and human rights to further their own belief structure.

I'm a supporter of rights for all people but I don't support the arrogance of believing we know what is best for someone else and then making that decision for them in the face of protest from the very people we believe we are saving.

_________________

The way I see it is fuck religion. Mankind has better things to do than cower before an angry invisible baby-sitter.

_________________
mechaphil

First off you are a prick Phil.

Well people in Europe have been trying to ban mosques, burqas, public praying and other signs of Islam for various reasons. Some reasons are understandable and some are just bat shit crazy. 9/11 and the wars in the Middle East have sent a ton of refugees into Europe and they are afraid of terrorism attacks related to Muslims. I can understand that but anti-tolerance laws are discriminative in nature and are more of a knee jerk reaction. Maybe racism isn't the right word but perhaps just leaving it at religious intolerance is more appropriate. People have the right to be afraid but they also need to know that not all Muslims or brown people are going to make home made dynamite.

_________________

Hey man, I'm with ya. I'm a stern atheist and hold true to people like Dawkins who say that we'd all be a hell of a lot safer without religion. But if people are going to believe in ghosts in the sky and Jesus crisps that take your sin away well shit, what can ya do? I just think that people deserve the freedom to believe whatever they want despite me thinking they're loony toons.

_________________

Still doesn't answer where his racism argument is coming from.

Also, isn't this burka law just an addendum to a law already in place banning outward symbols of any religion in public. Why don't we hear about Jews complaining about this regarding their yamacha (sp please) or Christians with their Jesus bling?

_________________
mechaphil

Racism in the idea that it targets one group. It's an extension of the mosque ban in some people's minds and across Europe people are viewing this as an anti-muslim ban rather than a "let's get on equal footing" type thing. People are comparing it (I think unjustly so) to how rounded up Japanese Americans after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor saying that we're treating all Muslims like terrorists, which is pretty racist.

I thought the yamaka and cross ban was just in schools?

_________________

Which I'm in support of if it is in schools only. Separation of Church and state and what not.

_________________

Targeting Muslims is religious persecution, not racism.

True in the pure sense but so many people are ignorant and think all "brown" people are Muslims that it just spills over onto everyone else.

_________________