I'm not anti-religious Cross, I'm anti-fundamentalist, anti-extremist. Believing in a higher power and meddling in public schools are two different things. I can handle them coming round my door peddling their "saving" speech, but I can't accept them causing school boards around the country to pay to defend their science classes from mythology.

Some things here about impact of these idiots on our children and school systems:

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In August of 1999 the Kansas State Board of Education rejected evolution and the Big Bang theory as scientific principles. The 10-member board voted six to four to eliminate these topics from the science curricula. The Kansas Board did not ban the teaching of evolution or of the Big Bang theory. The Board simply deleted any mention of evolution and the Big Bang theory from the science curriculum and from the materials used to test graduating students. Creationists, such as Board Member Steve Abrams, a former head of the state Republican Party, hailed the decision as a victory in the war against evolutionists. A new Board restored the scientific theories to their previous place in February 2001.

For two years students weren't taught evolution because of "creation scientists"

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On June 26, 2008, the Louisiana Science Education Act (LSEA) was signed into law by Governor Bobby Jindal. Under the guise of academic freedom, the bill allows local school boards to approve supplemental classroom materials specifically for the critique of scientific theories such as evolution.

The text of the LSEA suggests that it's intended to foster critical thinking, calling on the state Board of Education to "assist teachers, principals, and other school administrators to create and foster an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that promotes critical thinking skills, logical analysis, and open and objective discussion of scientific theories." Unfortunately, it's remarkably selective in its suggestion of topics that need critical thinking, as it cites scientific subjects "including, but not limited to, evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning."*

It is likely, but not a foregone conclusion, that courts will see through this guise. The purpose is not to encourage critical thinking, as the legislation asserts, but to promote favored ideas

Jindal's antics in Louisiana are pretty concerning to me and the "Academic Freedom" stuff popping up in states is scary.

What I'm saying is that extremist and fundamental groups amongst religions are the issue, that narrow minority, not religion itself nor people of faith. They can believe what they want, it doesn't matter what I think about their bigot and racist ideals, they have that freedom. It's when they take those ideals outside of their private organizations and start attacking secularism and trying to impose their beliefs on the rest of us that I believe we have a right to be upset.

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Then when you speak consistently about religion and religious people being all these things "idiots", "bigots", and "racists", you only speaking about "that narrow minority" of fundamentalists and extremists?

Because that's not at all how you come across.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

and you have no problem trying to impose your secular beliefs on us, and do not complain when the government does so

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PSA: I am an overly sarcastic person. If you take me at my word, then i will most likely anger and offend you.

Still waiting for those hard facts to back up your claims from two pages ago, Mo.

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mechaphil

Seriously, we're talking about creationism in schools and from everything I wrote and sourced you write that? Obviously you care nothing about the issue and everything about arguing with me. Thanks for that.

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It's not a secular belief, it's the First Amendment.

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The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution forbids the government from establishing religion. This mean that public schools can not give special privileges to any religion. Since creationism is a sectarian religious view, it cannot be given preferential treatment by any government body, including public schools.

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and evolution is an atheistic belief, which gives support to atheism
Honestly, my view on this

present both sides of the argument, and leave it up for the student to accept whatever they wish

(for the record, im not a creationist. more on the God driven evolution side of things)

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PSA: I am an overly sarcastic person. If you take me at my word, then i will most likely anger and offend you.

A religious belief should only be taught in a religious institution, not in a public school funded by public dollars. End of story.

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mechaphil

Parts of that are hard to do though, being that creationism says the Earth and everything on it is only a few thousand years old.

when did religion become a private matter? like, just wondering. but now people are up in arms if something remotely religious is brought up in a public setting.

people need to get over themselves. if something linked to religion is brought up in school, who cares? im not saying read the bible and teach it and stuff, but really. i get the feeling people would bitch if a religious school teacher put up a cross in their room as an ornament.

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You're not saying teach the Bible, but you're saying it's OK if it's taught in non-religious institutions? Cuz that's what Creationism is - it's a Bible subject that would be taught.

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mechaphil

no, i dont give a crap about that. im just saying, that say a teacher was teaching the history of isreal, and she brought up jesus, people would throw a shit fit about it. theres no grey area anymore. and its dumb.

like, really? people get pissed if a teacher puts up "merry christmas" banners in their room. WHY DOESNT IT SAY HAPPY HOLIDAYS?!

good grief, charlie brown.

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I pay lots of my money for school taxes. My tax dollars should not be spent promoting a religion that I may or may not agree with.

Why should a child whose family has an Islamic background be forced to learn about Christianity when they go to school? They shouldn't.

Unless you make a conscious choice to send a child to a religious education institution, religion should not be taught.

ok, i think you kids are missing my point. ive never been taught anything about the bible in school. im saying straight up if their is ANY evidence of religion in a class room, such as a cross on the wall behind the desk, or even a merry christmas banner on the wall, people throw shit fits about it.

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Putting up a 'Merry Xmas' banner is one thing, and I agree with that too many people overreact to stuff like that.

To your first point, Jesus (the person) isn't exactly someone with a lot of documented history outside of the Bible. There really isn't a historical reason to bring him up in any kind of history lesson that I can think of.

ya know, i gotta be honest with you, i was just spit ballin it there.

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There is no argument, there is established science and then there are people who believe in a literal translation of a religious document. Also evolution is not an atheist belief. Plenty of scientists believe in god and think that their work in unlocking the secrets of the universe's beginning, growth and eventually our evolution strengthen their faith. Despite scientist's own personal faith, they go off of and teach the facts in front of them, not spiritual leanings. No matter how many people believe something, or how strongly they adhere to it, that resolve does nothing to make the belief a fact.

This is not an attack on religion but rather an defense from it. Educators aren't attacking religious groups or storming the doors of churches, it is quite the other way round. The science room is for science, not mythology. The purpose of schools is to teach facts, not faith.

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Speaking of Jesus as a man or his impact on the people of Israel in a history class is accepted and appropriate. Elective theology classes, good to go. Slipping science classes a God roofie is not okay.

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You're right, there aren't many facts about Jesus existing though I have learned about his impact on the people of the time in history classes, how their belief in him shaped the people of the time and future generations in anthro classes and even his effect on art in humanities and art history classes. All completely fine with me and I loved every class. I read books about religious history ALL the time and learn more about various faiths whenever I can. (reading the Pseudepigrapha now) I'm completely fine with religion being taught in school if it's to define context, explain motivations etc but to offer it up in a science class as science isn't appropriate.

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WTH happened in here?

Lesbian softball players was the topic...let's focus.



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Hold my beer and watch this...