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Squanto
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Darcy had some defense when the team had a self-imposed cap. You could always argue that he couldn't go out and get big name players because he didn't have the money available to do so.

Now, he has the money, but he's spending it wrong. He deserves every ounce of criticism he gets for that.


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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
Darcy had some defense when the team had a self-imposed cap. You could always argue that he couldn't go out and get big name players because he didn't have the money available to do so.

Now, he has the money, but he's spending it wrong. He deserves every ounce of criticism he gets for that.



Fair enough, but how exactly is he spending it wrong? I just don't see it to be honest with you guys.

I think we can all agree that the team is better off with Vanek for 7.1 then Drury.

Miller is perhaps the highest paid goalie in the league, and unlike countless others (Khabibulin, Theodore) he is worth even more than his contract.

Jay McKee, at the time he was pretty much the leagues Volchenkov, but at 4 million a year I think they were wise to let him sign elsewhere.

Name me 2 other NHL players that are not on entry level contracts, and produce 70+ points a season for 4 million a year like Roy does.

Pomminville is not pulling his own weight, Connelly gets hurt a lot and doesn't appear to be very clutch. Those guys SHOULD be on a short leash from MGMT and I haven't seen or heard anything that would indicate that they are cemented into next seasons roster.

Meanwhile the scouting, drafting, and development of players remains among the leagues best and the coaching is great too.

Maybe I am being naive but I so far I'm not buying into this negativity about MGMT.

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Five goaltenders are actually paid more than Ryan Miller, but he has the third highest cap hit.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:38 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
Five goaltenders are actually paid more than Ryan Miller, but he has the third highest cap hit.


Third highest cap hit, but the best goalie. That's value right there, sir.

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
mechaphil wrote:
Five goaltenders are actually paid more than Ryan Miller, but he has the third highest cap hit.


Third highest cap hit, but the best goalie. That's value right there, sir.

Bryzgalov only made $4.5M last season - THAT'S value!

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Squanto
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:41 pm 
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The Connolly extension was horrible. He didn't deserve that kind of money until he could prove that he could actually stay on the ice.

I like Gaustad as a player, but he's overpaid for what he provides

Hecht has come back around, but you're again paying for a defensive forward with limited offensive upside.

Pomminville contract isn't as bad, but you're again giving a good chunk of money to a middle of the road player.


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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:07 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
Five goaltenders are actually paid more than Ryan Miller, but he has the third highest cap hit.


*caugh* LUNDQVIST *caugh*

OVERRATED!

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
The Connolly extension was horrible. He didn't deserve that kind of money until he could prove that he could actually stay on the ice.

I like Gaustad as a player, but he's overpaid for what he provides

Hecht has come back around, but you're again paying for a defensive forward with limited offensive upside.

Pomminville contract isn't as bad, but you're again giving a good chunk of money to a middle of the road player.



I pretty much agree with all of that except for Gaustad, he seems to provide an edge to his game that the Sabres need a lot more of. Maybe in terms of stats he isn't worth it but you need guys like Gaustad to compliment the point producers, and stick up for them.

I think it's unreasonable to fault a GM for an injury prone player. That's not something anybody can really predict accurately. AT least he didn't give him a 15 year deal like the NYI gave Dipietro, I don't think he's played a game since signing that thing like 3 years ago!

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:49 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
Squanto wrote:
The Connolly extension was horrible. He didn't deserve that kind of money until he could prove that he could actually stay on the ice.

I like Gaustad as a player, but he's overpaid for what he provides

Hecht has come back around, but you're again paying for a defensive forward with limited offensive upside.

Pomminville contract isn't as bad, but you're again giving a good chunk of money to a middle of the road player.



I pretty much agree with all of that except for Gaustad, he seems to provide an edge to his game that the Sabres need a lot more of. Maybe in terms of stats he isn't worth it but you need guys like Gaustad to compliment the point producers, and stick up for them.

I think it's unreasonable to fault a GM for an injury prone player. That's not something anybody can really predict accurately. AT least he didn't give him a 15 year deal like the NYI gave Dipietro, I don't think he's played a game since signing that thing like 3 years ago!


You can fault the GM when Connolly has shown a long history of injury-proneness, and still signs him to a 2-year $4.5 million contract.

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:54 pm 
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The problem with Goose is he's touted for his leadership and toughness, but he's inconsistent with his toughness and it doesn't look good to the youngins when a "leader" on the team vanishes for long stretches of play or even games. $2.5M for a faceoff specialist who's a glorified 4th line center and has a bad shoulder now? If he were consistent and the bruiser his 6'4" 225lb frame says he should be night in and night out, chipping in his 12 goals a year, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But the only thing he's consistent on is his faceoff wins.

I love the Goose, but there's a lot wrong with his presence on this team and right at the top is his $2.5M.

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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
The Connolly extension was horrible. He didn't deserve that kind of money until he could prove that he could actually stay on the ice.

I like Gaustad as a player, but he's overpaid for what he provides

Hecht has come back around, but you're again paying for a defensive forward with limited offensive upside.

Pomminville contract isn't as bad, but you're again giving a good chunk of money to a middle of the road player.


Squanto is 100% dead on!

No-one can deny Connolly is a great stickhandler and passer but his health issue is a big concern and giving him a raise when he could have been traded when his value was probably at it's highest in years.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:57 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
I pretty much agree with all of that except for Gaustad, he seems to provide an edge to his game that the Sabres need a lot more of. Maybe in terms of stats he isn't worth it but you need guys like Gaustad to compliment the point producers, and stick up for them.

I think it's unreasonable to fault a GM for an injury prone player. That's not something anybody can really predict accurately. AT least he didn't give him a 15 year deal like the NYI gave Dipietro, I don't think he's played a game since signing that thing like 3 years ago!


To repeat, I like WHAT Gaustad does. I like his physical play (when he does it) and forechecking ability. However, you can get that same thing out of a player for less money. That's my only point.

He didn't have to predict anything with Connolly. He had a history of injury BEFORE he gave him $9M. The fact that he managed to play 70+ games this year was actually an aberration.


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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:57 pm 
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yeah, but are you going to let connolly walk? thats a mighty big void to fill, offensively.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:00 pm 
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ironyisadeadscene wrote:
yeah, but are you going to let connolly walk? thats a mighty big void to fill, offensively.


Add on about $1M per year onto his salary, and you can sign a decent UFA (should they want to come here) with similar production.

My gripe isn't with the player; it's about how much the player was paid. If I'm the GM with trade offers on the table and an agent wanting $9M, with the injury history, I'm making that trade.


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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
I pretty much agree with all of that except for Gaustad, he seems to provide an edge to his game that the Sabres need a lot more of. Maybe in terms of stats he isn't worth it but you need guys like Gaustad to compliment the point producers, and stick up for them.

I think it's unreasonable to fault a GM for an injury prone player. That's not something anybody can really predict accurately. AT least he didn't give him a 15 year deal like the NYI gave Dipietro, I don't think he's played a game since signing that thing like 3 years ago!


To repeat, I like WHAT Gaustad does. I like his physical play (when he does it) and forechecking ability. However, you can get that same thing out of a player for less money. That's my only point.

He didn't have to predict anything with Connolly. He had a history of injury BEFORE he gave him $9M. The fact that he managed to play 70+ games this year was actually an aberration.



I'm also in agreement with this as well.
No one can't like what Gaustad does. He works his ass off on the ice but you can get the samething out of a player for less money.


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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
yeah, but are you going to let connolly walk? thats a mighty big void to fill, offensively.


Add on about $1M per year onto his salary, and you can sign a decent UFA (should they want to come here) with similar production.

My gripe isn't with the player; it's about how much the player was paid. If I'm the GM with trade offers on the table and an agent wanting $9M, with the injury history, I'm making that trade.



Squanto's last three posts are totally true and I think the same.


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dr.K
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:35 pm 
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if connolly has another big regular season he'll have even more value at the deadline, especially if he stays healthy. I do not agree with the raise he was given based on the past three seasons he had played. and i will not be pleased if connolly is resigned again but i do think he may have more value this years deadline if he stays healthy.

reasons:
He'll have close to two seasons healthy
He'll show he can put up points.
Some team might bite on that even though he didn't play real well in the playoffs.
say you get a 2nd instead of a 3rd. this is hypothetical.
Teams can use a center who can produce during the season, heck thorton gets paid to get you to the playoffs, an example not a direct comparison.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
I pretty much agree with all of that except for Gaustad, he seems to provide an edge to his game that the Sabres need a lot more of. Maybe in terms of stats he isn't worth it but you need guys like Gaustad to compliment the point producers, and stick up for them.

I think it's unreasonable to fault a GM for an injury prone player. That's not something anybody can really predict accurately. AT least he didn't give him a 15 year deal like the NYI gave Dipietro, I don't think he's played a game since signing that thing like 3 years ago!


To repeat, I like WHAT Gaustad does. I like his physical play (when he does it) and forechecking ability. However, you can get that same thing out of a player for less money. That's my only point.

He didn't have to predict anything with Connolly. He had a history of injury BEFORE he gave him $9M. The fact that he managed to play 70+ games this year was actually an aberration.



Right, but if Connelly stays healthy he's an 80 point guy. That's a shit load of production at 4.5/year! It was a calculated risk that was worth taking, and it was only for two years so it's a very easy contract to trade to a team like Atlanta or NYI, IF you found somebody better in the meantime. Having said that, I suspect that MGMT is less than thrilled with Connelly, and like I said before his spot on the team isn't etched in stone.

I kind of think Gaustad is paid a little too much for what he brings to the table, maybe if he had 10-14 fighting majors instead of just 4 that would help to make up for it. Maybe the team needs to add a Micheal Rupp? He served the Penguins well last season, and if I'm not mistaken I think he beat the snot out of Gausted in Pittsburgh last year. In retaliation for Myers punishing but clean hit on Malkin that almost never happens to him. Gausted broke his hand in that fight, I think that's why he lost.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:36 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
I suspect that MGMT is less than thrilled with Connelly, and like I said before his spot on the team isn't etched in stone.


He's not going anywhere. The Sabres have repeatedly said that they won't spend money to buy players out. He's also virtually un-tradable right now with only a single season left on his deal. He doesn't give you enough offense to justify $4.5M, he does nothing in the faceoff circle, and there's the everpresent risk of injury. At best, you can move him as a rental at the deadline if another team thinks he'll help.

EDIT: I also dispute he's an 80 point player. His best season was 05-06 with 66 including the playoffs.


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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
I suspect that MGMT is less than thrilled with Connelly, and like I said before his spot on the team isn't etched in stone.


He's not going anywhere. The Sabres have repeatedly said that they won't spend money to buy players out. He's also virtually un-tradable right now with only a single season left on his deal. He doesn't give you enough offense to justify $4.5M, he does nothing in the faceoff circle, and there's the everpresent risk of injury. At best, you can move him as a rental at the deadline if another team thinks he'll help.

EDIT: I also dispute he's an 80 point player. His best season was 05-06 with 66 including the playoffs.


I happen to think that Atlanta or NYI would offer a second rounder for him, or something of comparative value. There's only one year left on his contract, there isn't much risk. But hey, if they decide to keep him he might prove me right and put up 80 points.

That might be bad news from your point of view, because he would almost certainly get a new contract offer here! lol

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