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mechaphil
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:24 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
The past few years have sucked, but I can't say for sure that there were even moves to BE made. I think Darcy's on the right track (as evidenced by your post), but he doesn't make the move for the sake of making a move.

Which is one thing I like about the guy, for sure. No itchy trigger finger on him at all. Sometimes it's bad, but I'd rather a patient GM than Bob motherfucking Gainey (or heaven forbid, Mike Milbury).

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
mechaphil wrote:
The Sabres AREN'T making money. In 2007 after the ECF flame-out against the Sens when the salary cap was still $53M?, Larry Quinn gave an interview in which he said the Sabres do not make money unless the team can get out of the first round and that they barely break even unless they merely make the playoffs.


I still dispute Larry's creative accounting methods, but that's a story for another thread.

As do I, and it's something we've talked about in person, but until we see otherwise, we can take what he says at face value.

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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
SabresBillsFan wrote:
Oh you mean he trades away future high draft picks for a player that stays a month who sucks! yeah those are great moves. Sorry, but the players he traded for are leftover garbage that the Sabres hope they can turn for the better. How about trading away picks that aren't rental's? This team can't afford to toss away picks for players that stay a month and I know I'm not the only one that thinks like this. Wouldn't that make more sense but then again we are talking about Darcy!


-Matt Barnaby traded to the Pitt Penguins for Stu Barnes

Wow. That was a terrible deal. An agitator for a captain.

-Mike Wilson traded to Florida for Rhett Warrener and a 1999 5th round draft pick (Ryan Miller)

Nuff said.

-Alexei Tezikov traded to Washington for Joe Juneau and a 2000 4th round draft pick (Tim Preston)

Juneau was a rental, but he produced in the playoffs that year.

-Michal Grosek traded to Chicago Blackhawks for Doug Gilmour and Jean-Pierre Dumont

One of the biggest fleece jobs in team history.

-Michael Peca traded to NYI for Tim Connolly and Taylor Pyatt.

Wish he never made this trade, but he at least got something out of an asset that wasn't doing anything.

-Dominik Hasek traded to Detroit for Vyacheslav Kozlov, a first-round pick in 2002 and future considerations
-Vyacheslav Kozlov, 41st pick overall in 2002 traded to Atlanta for 31st and 82nd picks overall in the 2002 draft.

Got a first rounder for a player that no longer wanted to be here.

-Erik Rasmussen traded to Los Angeles for Adam Mair and a 5th round pick in the 2003 entry draft.

Mair has been a fixture on the team, and got an extra pick.

-Chris Gratton and a 4th round pick in 2004 entry draft traded to Phoenix Coyotes for Daniel Briere and a 3rd round pick in 2004

Yea.

-6th round pick in 2006 NHL entry draft traded to the Washington Capitals for Tim Kennedy.


While he hasn't always made the right moves, he's made moves. EVERY YEAR.



Your talking trades he made many years ago before his Briere, Drury and Vanek Blunder. I don't have anything bad to say about those moves but the last few years his high draft picks for player rentals have been brutal. For an organization that relies on building thru the draft it doesn't make sense to trade away high picks for rentals unless you are a guy away for being a cup contender and the last two years they weren't cup contenders. He is getting stale as our GM that's all I'm saying.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Oh yea, SBF - once you figure out the difference in contextual usage between they're, there, and their, you need to work on differentiating between you're and your. For fuck's sake.

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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:30 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
NYIntensity wrote:
The past few years have sucked, but I can't say for sure that there were even moves to BE made. I think Darcy's on the right track (as evidenced by your post), but he doesn't make the move for the sake of making a move.

Which is one thing I like about the guy, for sure. No itchy trigger finger on him at all. Sometimes it's bad, but I'd rather a patient GM than Bob motherfucking Gainey (or heaven forbid, Mike Milbury).


Milbury was a brutal GM no questions ask. I'm all for a GM that is patient but not Darcy type Patient! In today's NHL especially if you want to build a winner you need a GM that has balls that isn't afraid to take risk and Darcy isn't a risk taker.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:32 pm 
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SabresBillsFan wrote:
Your talking trades he made many years ago before his Briere, Drury and Vanek Blunder. I don't have anything bad to say about those moves but the last few years his high draft picks for player rentals have been brutal. For an organization that relies on building thru the draft it doesn't make sense to trade away high picks for rentals unless you are a guy away for being a cup contender and the last two years they weren't cup contenders. He is getting stale as our GM that's all I'm saying.


As I've said, if you want to criticize the results of his moves, I'm all ears. Lots here will agree with you.

However, your mantra is normally 'Darcy never makes moves', which is patently false. His recent history hasn't been very active, but it cannot be denied that he's made some very good moves in the past. If you're going to judge a guy, it's only fair to judge the body of work, and not cherry pick a timeframe that suits your pre-conceived opinion.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:34 pm 
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SabresBillsFan wrote:
Milbury was a brutal GM no questions ask. I'm all for a GM that is patient but not Darcy type Patient! In today's NHL especially if you want to build a winner you need a GM that has balls that isn't afraid to take risk and Darcy isn't a risk taker.


You're going to go to Milbury, one of the worse GMs in recent memory?


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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:35 pm 
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All you guys have your opinions and I have mine. I'm not disagreeing with everything most of you guys are saying I'm not a fan of Darcy or Larry and who really's know's what going on behind the scenes here in Buffalo but their is no reason with the fanbase this team has that they should settle for being mediocre. Doesn't winning bring you more fans and more fans bring you more money.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
SabresBillsFan wrote:
Your talking trades he made many years ago before his Briere, Drury and Vanek Blunder. I don't have anything bad to say about those moves but the last few years his high draft picks for player rentals have been brutal. For an organization that relies on building thru the draft it doesn't make sense to trade away high picks for rentals unless you are a guy away for being a cup contender and the last two years they weren't cup contenders. He is getting stale as our GM that's all I'm saying.


As I've said, if you want to criticize the results of his moves, I'm all ears. Lots here will agree with you.

However, your mantra is normally 'Darcy never makes moves', which is patently false. His recent history hasn't been very active, but it cannot be denied that he's made some very good moves in the past. If you're going to judge a guy, it's only fair to judge the body of work, and not cherry pick a timeframe that suits your pre-conceived opinion.

Tom, you forgot a sterling move - whether it was the Campbell for Bernier trade or the picks for Rivet trade (I think it was Campbell for Bernier and a 1st), the pick the Sabres got from SJS turned in to Tyler Ennis.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:40 pm 
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SabresBillsFan wrote:
All you guys have your opinions and I have mine. I'm not disagreeing with everything most of you guys are saying I'm not a fan of Darcy or Larry and who really's know's what going on behind the scenes here in Buffalo but their is no reason with the fanbase this team has that they should settle for being mediocre. Doesn't winning bring you more fans and more fans bring you more money.


your shit gets annoying when its the same thought in every thread and you have nothing relevant to add to the conversation.





Back on topic.
Assuming Phil's analysis of the holes we'll have is correct, I'd like to see:

Sharp as first line RW
Lombardi as third line Center
Winchester or Nystrom as fourth line LW

Biron or Budaj as backup goaltender, probably leaning a little towards Budaj statwise

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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
SabresBillsFan wrote:
Your talking trades he made many years ago before his Briere, Drury and Vanek Blunder. I don't have anything bad to say about those moves but the last few years his high draft picks for player rentals have been brutal. For an organization that relies on building thru the draft it doesn't make sense to trade away high picks for rentals unless you are a guy away for being a cup contender and the last two years they weren't cup contenders. He is getting stale as our GM that's all I'm saying.


As I've said, if you want to criticize the results of his moves, I'm all ears. Lots here will agree with you.

However, your mantra is normally 'Darcy never makes moves', which is patently false. His recent history hasn't been very active, but it cannot be denied that he's made some very good moves in the past. If you're going to judge a guy, it's only fair to judge the body of work, and not cherry pick a timeframe that suits your pre-conceived opinion.


Squanto you and I have had many disagreements and some agreements and I'm just saying that since the Drury, Briere and Vanek blunder his moves have been pretty shitty. Do I like the Rivet trade. Yeah it's okay. Rivet is decent. He brings back Grier who was desperately needed in the locker room for nothing which was good. I'm just not happy about his trade deadline deals. For a team that relies on high draft picks to trade them away for rentals is stupid. Especially because this team wasn't a contender when they brought in Moore and expecting Torres to re-gain his old form when he had the cup run was wrong when he had years and years of being mediocre. Then he re-signs Connolly when his trade value was probably the highest in years and then gives him a raise on top of it.


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:45 pm 
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I should know this, but does free aganecy start at midnight tonight or noon tomorrow? I'm thinking noon or 3PM EST based on my horrible memories of 3 years ago.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:45 pm 
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It starts at 12PM EST

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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:46 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
SabresBillsFan wrote:
All you guys have your opinions and I have mine. I'm not disagreeing with everything most of you guys are saying I'm not a fan of Darcy or Larry and who really's know's what going on behind the scenes here in Buffalo but their is no reason with the fanbase this team has that they should settle for being mediocre. Doesn't winning bring you more fans and more fans bring you more money.


your shit gets annoying when its the same thought in every thread and you have nothing relevant to add to the conversation.





Back on topic.
Assuming Phil's analysis of the holes we'll have is correct, I'd like to see:

Sharp as first line RW
Lombardi as third line Center
Winchester or Nystrom as fourth line LW

Biron or Budaj as backup goaltender, probably leaning a little towards Budaj statwise


I also agree that all these players would be great to fill those slots.
I'm a big fan of Sharp but don't see him getting moved anytime soon.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:49 pm 
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The Moore move was a bit of a gamble. Didn't work out, and in hindsight it would have been better to keep Kotalik.

You really can't criticize the Torres move. When he got here, he WAS THE LEADING SCORER ON THE TEAM. Torres was having a good season. It's not Darcy's fault that Torres decided to mail it in.

You probably want to refine your point. Darcy's recent moves have not worked out well, but many of his deadline deals in the past have been very effective.

To be honest, it's pointless to evaluate a GM based on rental pickups at the deadline. Research has been done that shows how little impact rental players usually have on their new teams.


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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
The Moore move was a bit of a gamble. Didn't work out, and in hindsight it would have been better to keep Kotalik.

You really can't criticize the Torres move. When he got here, he WAS THE LEADING SCORER ON THE TEAM. Torres was having a good season. It's not Darcy's fault that Torres decided to mail it in.

You probably want to refine your point. Darcy's recent moves have not worked out well, but many of his deadline deals in the past have been very effective.

To be honest, it's pointless to evaluate a GM based on rental pickups at the deadline. Research has been done that shows how little impact rental players usually have on their new teams.



In his early days he made moves that make sense trading for players that still aren't in their prime or still have a couple of years of being a very effective player and he made those deals without giving up much. I'm not questioning those moves.
The last few years just seems like he is stale. He has the same lame excuses for the media and fans, his deadline deals have been brutal recently , he's not proactive when he needs to be. I just think it's time that a change is needed for a smart hockey guy that can take this team further.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:58 pm 
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SabresBillsFan wrote:
Squanto wrote:
The Moore move was a bit of a gamble. Didn't work out, and in hindsight it would have been better to keep Kotalik.

You really can't criticize the Torres move. When he got here, he WAS THE LEADING SCORER ON THE TEAM. Torres was having a good season. It's not Darcy's fault that Torres decided to mail it in.

You probably want to refine your point. Darcy's recent moves have not worked out well, but many of his deadline deals in the past have been very effective.

To be honest, it's pointless to evaluate a GM based on rental pickups at the deadline. Research has been done that shows how little impact rental players usually have on their new teams.



In his early days he made moves that make sense trading for players that still aren't in their prime or still have a couple of years of being a very effective player and he made those deals without giving up much. I'm not questioning those moves.
The last few years just seems like he is stale. He has the same lame excuses for the media and fans, his deadline deals have been brutal recently , he's not proactive when he needs to be. I just think it's time that a change is needed for a smart hockey guy that can take this team further.

OK, name three that are available that would be (here's the important part) WILLING TO SIGN HERE.

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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:07 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
SabresBillsFan wrote:
Squanto wrote:
The Moore move was a bit of a gamble. Didn't work out, and in hindsight it would have been better to keep Kotalik.

You really can't criticize the Torres move. When he got here, he WAS THE LEADING SCORER ON THE TEAM. Torres was having a good season. It's not Darcy's fault that Torres decided to mail it in.

You probably want to refine your point. Darcy's recent moves have not worked out well, but many of his deadline deals in the past have been very effective.

To be honest, it's pointless to evaluate a GM based on rental pickups at the deadline. Research has been done that shows how little impact rental players usually have on their new teams.



In his early days he made moves that make sense trading for players that still aren't in their prime or still have a couple of years of being a very effective player and he made those deals without giving up much. I'm not questioning those moves.
The last few years just seems like he is stale. He has the same lame excuses for the media and fans, his deadline deals have been brutal recently , he's not proactive when he needs to be. I just think it's time that a change is needed for a smart hockey guy that can take this team further.

OK, name three that are available that would be (here's the important part) WILLING TO SIGN HERE.


I didn't name any because I'm not sure who would be available and who's out there. And I'm not talking a guy that's been around awhile. Maybe someone who's up and coming. I'm sure their are alot of smart hockey guys out there that are with teams that just haven't been given the opportunity.

I'm sure I'm not the only guy sitting here and getting pissed off when you see teams making moves and then you have an opportunity to better your club and your GM does nothing. I'm good with his MO of building thru the draft fine. I just don't like high picks traded away for rentals unless you are a cup favorite that might need the extra push. Like I said before is it Darcy or the current management of the Sabres we will probably never know but I just think it's time for a change. I just hope Darcy will be active tomorrow and maybe change his ways. It would be a nice thing to see that they want to improve the club rather than just sit and do nothing.


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Van_Da_Man
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:30 pm 
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We just won the division as the culmination of one of Darcy's 5 year plans (maybe less, maybe more) and THIS TEAM IS NOT GARBAGE. There are no glaring holes, what do we need? A BACKUP goaltender, a PP quarterback, maybe a little added toughness sprinkled around, and maybe another vet to balance this team, but holy ass we don't want to blow shit up just for the sake of making moves. We could take care of the backup goalie and a vet presence by signing Biron (probably not gonna happen but how awsome would that be?) And i'm sure there's a PP QB or two running around that could come to buffalo.
OR we could just let our core develop, hope they continue to improve and go on our way. I really don't care. But with your moaning about darcy not doing this, and darcy not doing that is getting on my nerves especially because it's not warranted. What would you do to improve a division winning team with a large core of young guys and the best goalie in the league? Trade em all away and hope someone sticks?

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Lacking a PP QB really IS a glaring hole! Why did the Sabres get bounced by Boston? Was it that they had the worst PP conversion rate of the entire first round? Could be!

And signing a good back-up is VERY important because, as Sabres fans, we know better than anyone what happens when Miller gets tired.

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