It didn't start that way. It started by Germans blaming Jews for economic problems.

Sorry. FAIL. No one here is talking about a Final Solution or eugenics.

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Then it became OK to segregate Jews and treat them differently and give them fewer rights. Build fences around their neighborhoods, send them to other countries. No, that's NOTHING like this...

You're right. It IS nothing like this.

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I'm sorry but you're wrong.
We had over 1.5 million legal immigrants last year and our legal immigration numbers are at an all time high (as far as numbers and as a percentage).
Illegal immigrants aren't coming here illegally because we won't let them in through proper channels, they're coming here illegally because it's way easier and cheaper to just walk across a desert and be assured nothing will be done about it.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Not in my mind my man. And the fact that you can't see the parallels is what bothers me about the political climate in this country surrounding the "immigration problem".

I can see parallels yes. Do I think the weight of those parallels are as grave as you think...no. The Jewish people had much more financial control and were spread much more throughout the entire country of Germany than the Mexicans here in the states. They were blamed for controlling too much money....kind of different than Mexicans taking all our shitty jobs.

Regulating ILLEGAL immigration is not a bad thing. Like Cross said, it is easier to cross a desert than to go through the process to be legit. Something needs to be done with illegals, not legals and that is what is happening. Outside of a low percentage of incidents the laws are designed and enforced to keep those here illegally from being a further burden on our system. I can't find fault in upholding the law in this case.

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And obviously I am taking an extreme track here. We are not Nazi Germany here. But the unexamined life is not worth living. And I think people need to take a long hard look in the mirror here.

Look at the bottom of the fucking page: "who is right, Arizona or Obama?". This country is basing policies on a climate driven by fear. Fear manipulates people. I don't think the average American is a bad person. But I do think we are socialized into dehumanizing "illegals", and that this process is excelerating. Similarly the average German in the Third Reich was not a bad person. But they were socialized into thinking that Jews were less than human. They were driven by hatred and fear. It's a slipery slope.

I'm watching a profile of Jack Kevorkian and his family was Armenian. They were driven here by the genocide Turkey conducted on Armenia. I personally am glad that they could come here. I am glad that the poor and downtrodden and persecuted of the world were allowede and even encouraged to come here. My ancestors included. They saw the US as a better opportunity and they came here. Yeah they faced discrimination and tough times, but they could come through Ellis Island despite the fact that they were poor, that they had no family here. Do you think it's possible for all these "illegals" to do the same?

What I'm saying is that maybe instead of putting up walls and villainizing illegal immigrants, we should re-examine why they're willing to walk across the desert, why they're willing to break the law, and more importantly risk they're lives. I don't think the're doing that because "it's easier and cheaper". Given the choice I think almost anyone would want to come legally. I think they don't feel they have a choice. And call me a bleeding heart, I don't fucking care, but I feel for them.

I don't see anyone here arguing against immigration.
Hell, I love immigration and immigrant cultures are what keep this country interesting.

I think most Americans are very hospitable and sympathetic to immigrants.
In return, they should show some courtesy and sign the damn book on the way in.

If your life is so extremely shitty wherever you came from, apply for asylum.

But as I said before, as long as this remains a political issue, the problem will never be solved.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

The anti-immigration (specifically Latino) implications and sentiments are all over this thread. They're so agreed-upon that they don't need to be stated. It's not a "political issue" in the way you're implying because it's a dead issue. No one will touch it. No politician would ever say the things I'm saying because it would be political death. every argument about immigration policy has to start with "we need to strengthen the border".

Well, you all might deny it, but there's a racist side to all that. Even nice people who don't think they have any racist tendencies are caught up in these sentiments. That's why no one is talking about building a wall on the Canadian border. So I'm not defending Obama. He's a wimp, fuck him. I'm saying this because reading this thread makes my heart sad and you all need to know that there is ugliness involved here.

No one is talking about building a wall on the Canadian border because we don't have millions of Canadians illegally entering the country.

I'm dead serious when I say it's unfortunate our illegal immigration problem is exasperated by mainly people of 1 race.
It makes it so much fucking harder for anyone to talk honestly about it, create policy around it or attempt to solve it.

You know what makes me sad? That predominantly Hispanic countries suck so much their citizens flee.
That's not the fault of some law in Arizona though.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

The Arizona law didn't call for any of that to take place. That was a result of an abuse of power or at the very least poor judment in applying the law. If we are going to rescind laws because of abuse or improper application, then we may as well throw the law books away. There has been every kind of abuse or botched effort toward investigating everything from robbery, rape, to murder, and nobody wants law enforcement to stop enforcing or investigating those crimes.

It's not. Hitler was discriminating against HIS OWN PEOPLE. He was murdering them for being Jews. Nobody is rounding up Mexicans and putting them in concentration camps to be experimented on and slaughtered. This is the deportation of PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE!!!

IF you go to France on vacation and never leave. If you got caught doing something and your not a citizen do you think you get to stay? FUCK NO! They ship your ass right back to where the fuck you came from....as they should




And herein lies another issues. There are estimates that as much as 30% of the prison population in this country is here illegally. That means 25% of our ENORMOUS federal budget that goes to prisons is dedicated to locking up people who had no right to be here in the first place. All the bleeding heart liberals who bitch about this law would CERTAINLY be pleased if 250 million a year magically found its way into social programs, which COULD be possible if these people were never here in the first place

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

I know that's not what the law calls for. I've said repeatedly that I don't really have a problem with most of the Arizona law. My only complaints is that it should do more to go after people who hire illegals, and that the clauses that allow citizens to sue a PD if they feel the law isn't being followed be removed. I don't need a lecture about rescinding laws that get abused. I was never suggesting such a thing.

My point with this has always been that if such things are happening now, before the new law is even in effect, what's going to happen when it is in effect? If officers are abusing their authority now, what are they going to do after the law is in effect?

Illegals are deported when arrested, not detained indefinitely at significant cost.

And can we PLEASE stop with the 'bleeding heart liberal' insults? Gets pretty damn annoying to be insulted like that on a regular basis simply for having a different view on a topic.

Actually, if they're convicted of a crime, they do their time here and are deported on release.



It's quite a bad problem here in California...we're releasing people early because of overcrowding.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Yes, a little levity will help bring me down once in awhile, my fault. Its overused and considering it from your viewpoint probably makes me sound ignorant, which I would hate.

But, the fact of the matter is, based on their sheer population representation nationwide, and ESPECIALLY on the border states, imprisoning illegals is a SERIOUS drain on budget funds based simply on percentages of the population. Now, we know that FACTUALLY, illegals commit a higher percentage of crime per capita than "whites" or "blacks" "latinos" or "Asians." Now, notice I said ILLEGALS and not Hispanics, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans or anything like it.


And when you say "illegals are deported when arrested, not detained indefinetly at a signifcant cost." You are 100% False. Yes, some who commit minor crimes are deported, but anyone committing a serious (read felonious) offense IS NOT deported, period.

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

You know what would be cool? If every illegal alien currently in jail got deported. No questions asked. Boom, they are gone.

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"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

Well I just heard an awesome question....

"If the Administration is suing Arizona over their law on the grounds of Federal supremacy, why aren't they suing sanctuary cities?"

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Also a valid point Corss......but I got one....

When I first heard about the feds suing Arizona over this law I was brought back to one point that continues to throw me. When Arizona passed this law, they literally did nothing more than solidify a current FEDERAL law already on the books in regards to immigration, but apply it to their state. Essentially, they borrowed a federal law and incorporated it into their state law.

So, if the federal government intends to sue the State of Arizona over the legality of this law, which THEY created themselves.........

Would they not be essentially arguing AGAINST a law that they passed in Congress and currently have on the books?

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking