Hey all

I usually just browse around the political section without saying much, but my reading here has made me wonder something, do we, as members of society 'owe' other people in society anything? As in, just by being members of a 'society' does that mean we have ANY obligation to care for other people (outside our family) in ANY way?

This can range from governmental programs for the poor, to giving a bum on the street a quarter, to anything in between. Basically, do you FEEL like you're part of a collective whole, and that it is your responsibility to care for people you dont know, or do you feel that we're all islands, distinct and separate, and that you owe no one anything?

Hope I phrased that clearly enough.

I meant to vote yes, but I clicked no.

I always think of A Christmas Carol when Scrooge is asked to donate money to the poor.

"Are there no prisons? And the union workhouses, are they still in operation?"

What a dick.



I donate as much as I can to primarily two institutions, The Salvation Army, and The American Cancer Society. I never throw any of my old stuff out, unless it's in really poor condition. Always donate. I also volunteer as a little league coach and umpire, and help out with field maintenance.

My final two years of little league, when I was 18 and 19, my dad and I paid the registration fees for one of my teammates and gave him rides to games and practices so he could afford to play. We've done the same for a few players the past few seasons as coaches that had trouble coming up with the money to play.


So to answer your question, I don't know what anyone "owes" anyone else. My dad and I just see a kid, and see that it's within our power to give them just one of the opportunities to have fun that we both had growing up. Kind of seems like a no-brainer.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I like Alex's answer. I think I relate to it. If I see someone in need, I help them when it's within my means to do so.

I won't vote because those options are WAY too polar.

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mechaphil

Ah, well then I didnt express myself correctly. I'm certainly not asking anyone to quantify exactly what is 'owed' (which perhaps is not the correct word to use) but just asking for a general feeling.

By taking those actions to help others you see need it, i'd say you've both answered 'yes'. You see another person in need, it resonates in you somehow, and you do something about it. There are plenty of people who have a different reaction.

But it's not a sense of owing anyone anything. If anything, it's a sense of owing it to myself to be a decent human being by doing what I can when I can.

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mechaphil

I think it's almost a false question, or at least set up in a very limiting way.

In this country we are hammered and hammered by the idea of individual rights, individual responsibility, with the idea of the invidual.

But I think all that misleads us into thinking we're separated from others and have nothing to do with them. I think that's wrong. I think we are nothing without others. That the individual is an inseparable part of its relationships with others and connections to the world, be they social, economic, emotional, biological (need to have kids and you can't do that by yourself), or whatever.

So in a sense I think we owe others everything. Without "others" we couldn't survive. They bring us into the world, care for us, grow food and produce machines, transport them to stores, sell them to us, serve our food, fill our gas tanks, clean up our bathrooms, entertain us, love and fuck us, and generally add all context and spice to life.

Sorry to get all philosophical.

So, you're not 'anyone'?

Honestly, I dont think there is a better word for this than 'owe', even if i'm not using it in the most popular usage.

Really you've answered my question, there IS something in you which feels sympathetic for others, and which seeks to help them when needed. That was the question I was asking...but it's kind of a hard one to phrase perfectly.

I dont know what you mean by a 'false question', I certainly dont have some ulterior motive i'm going to spring on you.

And yes, the question is supposed to be limited, as you demonstrated there are a zillion shades of grey to consider if one is going to examine the question fully, but I wanted to get a feeling for peoples gut instincts, whether they do or do not feel they are tied to a community/society, and whether or not they 'owe' anything of themselves to said community.

Well I think the way it's set up, it kind of leads into the idea of do we owe people money?, ie public assistance, and I think that's a limiting way of talking about "owing" others. Sorry if I'm assuming too much but the biggest political discussion here yesterday was about unemployment benefits, and in the context of that, that's how I took the question.

I think the answer is yes either way.

compassion, respect, and a helping hand until their actions justify otherwise.

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I aint ow otha bitches shit.

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"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

In my mind, I owe others kindness, respect, and the knowledge that they will not be misrepresented. I have thought extensively enough about my own moral code that I no longer have any problem in maintaining kindness toward others, including not losing a calm demeanor when they do not offer the same to me, but I do admit that it is difficult to maintain respect in some cases. The misrepresentation thing comes into play when it comes to not believing everything that is stated about a certain person, and waiting until all information is available to cast judgment if it is to be cast at all. Kindness is an intentionally vague term on my part; it can be anything from saying "thank you" and "have a nice day" with genuine meaning rather than stated out of mere habit, to helping out someone financially, to biting my tongue, etc.

I dislike all-encompassing attitudes toward social programs because they make helping (if indeed it is helping; depending on the specific program, I would say it is not) other people involuntary and therefore meaningless, and they take away a sense of responsibility for active kindness. Realistically, I know that without certain measures in place, most people would never help others; basically, we're all selfish. I just dislike that it's not a choice because to a lot of people, it's enough.

I don't have a problem with helping anyone out. I think the thing is that the majority of people consider their own family and friends as dearer to them than anyone else in the world and would be willing to help them but not necessarily others, and I absolutely don't operate that way. It's caused problems in relationships before, not having that bias, because it's the equivalent of some kind of expected moral code to some people, and to not have it is reprehensible to them... Ideally, in my mind, people are always willing to help each other out, always willing to forgive, regardless of relationship. It won't happen, though, not without a cultural change.

Personally, though, I don't feel that I am owed a thing. That doesn't make sense, but whatever.

Edit:
I am voting yes.

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Miles to go before I sleep

‎"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation."
-Khalil Gibran

Jael, read Faith of the Fallen by Terry Goodkind. You will LOVE IT.

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mechaphil

Will do. I need some books to read. Two bucks on Amazon.

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Miles to go before I sleep

‎"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation."
-Khalil Gibran

I'm a big fan of charity and a big opponent of forced wealth redistribution under threat of jail time.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Ha, i'd guess the second part is a pretty popular opinion, I just wonder about the first.

Compassion is perhaps the most powerful, uplifting, spiritually binding way to connect with the world. If you see a weak child being bullied and you step in and do something about it. You're perhaps brave, but mostly compassionate.

There is not enough of it. I certainly don't have enough of it, I spend 99% of my time worrying about #1 = Me. And I don't want or expect compassion from anybody else. But I am wise enough to know, that without it, life could not exist.

Without compassion we simply cannot evolve as a species. SO YES. I want to help, but I spend all my energy seeking diversions and making excuses not to help anybody but me. I'm your prototypical Gen X'r. I leave it up to others.

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"I love that you know how to do that." Cheryl/Carol/Crystal

"And I love that I have an erection that doesn't involve homeless people." Kreiger

Wow, both well said and painfully honest.

lol After 38 years I know who I am. I'd like to be a better person, buuuuuttttt there's just so many distractions....

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"I love that you know how to do that." Cheryl/Carol/Crystal

"And I love that I have an erection that doesn't involve homeless people." Kreiger

I'm going to have to say yes and no to this. We owe some people and others we shouldn't owe anything to.

There are so many people faking needs and pretending to be homeless to get a quick buck out of people that you always need to be weary of those, the ones we do owe are the ones who are terminally ill, to find a cure for cancer or aids or any of those other diseases. We owe it to ourselves because of close ones to try and find those cures.

To help a bum on the street is different, if he/she is a true homeless person help them out a bit, but I shit you not everyone of the homeless people here are all frauds, maybe not some in the City of Raleigh, but we ave people on the exit ramps who are true frauds and scam artists.

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