Let's discuss, shall we?

At first I was outraged; finding it an act of provocation. I can see the thoughts of religious freedom weighing heavy as well. My question to all of this is "how big IS ground zero, exactly?" What was the damage radius?

This mosque is being touted as being two blocks from ground zero, changing my sentiment to "ITS TWO F*CKING BLOCKS AWAY!!!"

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Is it STILL supposed to be opened on the tenth anniversary? Yes? well then fuck them.

Oy; I forgot the opening date. Yes, indeed, if that's the case...fuck them.

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We've already got 4 pages of outrage over here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3348

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Hold my beer and watch this...

I have no problem with it. It's a religious facility and they are reaching out from the Muslim community to say "Hey, we're Americans too, not terrorists." Anyone that hates all Muslims because of the actions of religious extremists needs an education. Every religion has it's bat shit crazy loons. Even a dirty atheist like me makes that distinction.

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If they want to distance themselves from Islamic extremism, perhaps they shouldn't open their Islamic house of worship on the 10th effin' anniversary of the worst act of said extremism in the exact place it was committed.

just sayin'

They're either mentally challenged, have the worst PR department money can buy, are being unintentionally insensitive or are being intentionally offensive.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

I think it depends on what side of the fence you stand. The proponents of the mosque feel it's a symbol of tolerance and unity while non-Islamic Americans think all Muslims are going to blow them up. I agree that Muslim's need to be sensitive to this kind of opinion even though I don't agree with the opinion itself.

I personally don't have an issue with them opening on the anniversary because I think it's a sign from the Muslim community that they condemn the attacks of 9/11. They want to separate themselves from the extremists as much as they can and would like to stop being suspected of criminal activity every time they take a breath. All in all I understand both sides of the argument. That being said I think the Muslims need to stop being naive and rethink the plan to open on this day. They also need to reach out more to the communities around them, though it's pretty hard when everyone thinks your brother blew up the Towers. The average American needs to learn more about the Islamic faith and quit characterizing the one and a half billion Muslims in the world from the actions of a comparably few number of extremists.

Now those that think a mosque near ground zero is terrible regardless of when it opens are a whole other kind of shit head all together.

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so if the Germans had a party because it was Krystallnacht, it would be totally cool, because they were doing it to condemn the actions of the Nazis.

i can get behind that logic.

I can't get behind or have a conversation about logic that compares 9/11 to the holocaust or logic that relates modern moderate Muslims to the Nazis.

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Opening it on 9/11 does nothing to advance their cause.
It does has the opposite effect.
I could give 2 shits if they want to put a mosque there. Opening it on that day is nothing less than a big middle finger to the thousands of people that will be there to remember their lost loved ones.

New Yorkers don't want it there
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-be ... 02569.html

If the people opening up the mosque really want it to be a symbol of tolerance and unity they should use the brain Allah gave them and do it on another damn day.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

XC, I remembered the other thread, but was too lazy to dive deep enough to find it.

Seriously; the only thing about it that pisses me off is the date. Why not the first day of Ramadan?

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I also wrote this in the same paragraph:

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it's a pretty good analogy. a group of people (nazis, muslim extremists) decide to attack another group based on some trait they hate (religion, culture). the counterparts of the offenders do not agree with the actions (most germans, most muslims) and decide that on the day the offensive act took place (9/11 or Krystallnacht) that it would show good will toward the offended group (Americans or Jews) to celebrate their tolerant side (acceptance and peace).

Did you simply just stop reading my post before you got to the part where I said they should rethink the opening date? I mean I already said it was a bad idea.
But once again let me say this: I understand why Muslims want to open the center on that day but think they need to pay more attention to the reactions of the surrounding community and use a little more common sense.

As for your analogy though, I disagree because moderate Muslims had nothing to do with 9/11. They aren't apologizing for anything they did but are instead condemning the extremists that claim a common ground in their faith. You say "their" tolerant side. Versus what? Seems you have a hard time separating various groups of Muslims from the ones who hijacked planes.

As for Germans apologizing for the Holocaust....go to Germany sometime and live there for a spell. They have all kinds of Holocaust remembrance shin digs on various historical dates. Pick a town and you'll see some kind of gathering; party; candle march ceremony; beer swigging......something at least once a year if not more on various important dates or at significant sites. The German people are very conscious of their history and treatment of the Jews. They have been reaching out to Jews in Germany for decades by condemning what happened. I lived there for nearly four years and don't find merit in your analogy.

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you must have missed the part where i didn't fault your stance on the topic, just your logic for why you think those muslims think they are being nice.

i don't see where i've shown any inability to separate muslim extremists from the majority of that religion.

remembrance =/= opening a new church

Again, modern German people/1938 Hitler Youth is not the same as moderate Muslims/Terrorists. These are members of a faith who in the same time context as the terrorist attacks are condemning them, not 52 years later and a generation or two removed. Also throwing a party versus opening a religious center is a laughable twist of words. I'm simply of the opinion that to say your analogy has a few holes in it would be an understatement.

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Their "tolerant" side? Like I said before: opposed to what? When you say "their" I take it as you're linking the terrorists with moderate Muslims and this opening of the Center is somehow showing "their" "tolerant" side.

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i mean the tolerant side as the 98% of the muslims that are peaceful people. i think you're cherry picking to try and make me look bad. but that's fine. "their" is supposed to refer to the religion.

Not cherry picking by any means. Think what you want. We're not communicating very well on this one...fuck it.

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