Who cares about the other teams players. I want our players to give it their all. Vanek has been lazy from day one. Look at many of the great players in the NHL like Crosby, Ryan Getzlaf, Ovie and Datsyuk etc do they skate really slow on a forecheck? NO. I just want Vanek to skate hard into the offensive zone and fight for the puck like Ellis or Goose. Dave Andreychuk was super slow but he found a way to hustle in the zone and fight along the boards like a junk yard dog. Vanek has said in the paper for a few years now that he wants to be an elite player and be a go to guy.

Again; like Andreychuk, Vanek will look better as time passes. Consistant 35 - 45 goal scorers.

Is Vanek a superstar? No, but neither was Andreychuk. Damn fine career though....

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"I'll rap you with my cane; you pencil necked geek!!"

-Bowler, imitating Freddy Blassie, at the very first M & G.

This is the most intellectual comparison I've seen on these boards while talking about Vanek...thank you Howie.

I honestly think this hits the nail on the head.

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"She's like plan C after an 18 pack"

Squanto 7/27/2010

I think the most frustrating part is we are getting a one demensional guy. 40 goals a year is not good if that's all you can do. Not for 7 mil a year. Every other superstar around the league has another talent, whether it be leadership, big physicality, good passing, etc...

The other thing is, other teams do not have to plan their gameplans around Vanek at all. For someone getting paid his kind of money, you usually do. The only thing a team has to be worried about is Vanek recieving a pass down the ice. Not because he has out hustled another player, but because he was standing on the blue line in the first place.

My biggest gripe is, if the guy actually has the puck on his stick, he can't make a play. Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not talking about deflections, tips or anything like that, i'm talking about puck control.

He is not a threat AT ALL with the puck on his stick down the ice. He can't pass, and he's not good at beating defenders. So an offensive guy that can't do those has very limited options. Connolly, Roy, Paille, Pommers, etc...are all much bigger threats.

Now here's the thing...The game he played on Saturday is the same game he played all of last season. The difference? 20 times a year he tips a puck on the powerplay, and the other 20 he is shooting into open nets are getting an open shot. He still plays the same lazy game, just some games he will generate tip goals.

My point is, it's the same kind of effort. I wish we saw more, but there isn't any drive to this guy.

And let's say we can't discount his tipping, because that's what the team is trying to do...score goals...ok that's what...3 seconds out of a single game? What does he do the rest of the 15 minutes? Um....

You have to gameplan around Vanek, if you leave Vanek alone in front of a goaltender you are fucked, because a goal will be put on the board, or one hell of a scoring chance.

And the whole bullshit of last year, he isn't shooting into open nets without a goaltender in them for 20 times a year. I mean the net is open, he just beat a goaltender with every 40 of his goals he scored, unless he had an EN goal last year.

I remember his two SHG as being absolute beauties rushing down the ice with Paille.

I know you hate the guy, but if you're going to bash him use actual facts and not your opinion on him, show me games where he shoots into wide open nets? Or he just gets lucky with his goals. Vanek is a guy who buries most of his chances, that is why he has one of the highest shooting percentages on this team.

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For starters, this whole 'what are we getting for 7M argument' is nonsensical and not a valid point of debate.

The sheet was offered by Kevin Lowe, not Regier. There's no way in hell that Vanek wasn't going to sign that. The salary is irrelevant to his play. You can say he's overpaid, and most would agree with you. But, that's a bitch against Darcy, not Vanek.

Now, let's move on to your 'Empty Net Goal' bullshit.

2008-2009
Vanek 40G 1 ENG

ONE. (To compare, Ovie had 5.)

2007-2008
Vanek 36G 1 ENG

ONE.

2006-2007
Vanek 43G 3 ENG

2005-2006
Vanek 25G 1 ENG

Vanek doesn't have 20 ENGs in his CAREER, let alone a single season. Try some facts next time before you put forth a bullshit argument.

Let's call a spade a spade here, shall we? You hate Vanek because you don't think he's worth the money, but he didn't ask for that money. No matter what statistical analysis is put forth to refute your random bitchings about him, your mind is made up. So why continue to pretend that you're willing to have a reasoned debate about him?

You're fucking wasting my time.

Andreychuk was the best comparable for Vanek.

Unfortunately, I called that Vanek and the complaints he would get would mirror what happened when Dave A. was in Buffalo the first time around.

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Sabres Hockey: Commitment to Mediocrity

I don't know if this has been said but the thing I notice with vanek was his inability to sit in front of Price when shots were taken. That's his bread and butter with tip-ins and I don't know if that was purposely done or if the Canadians made it impossible for him.

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Thanks Squanto for explaining the contract issue. Too bad nobody ever listens to those facts.

Squirrel, if Buffalo does a good job containing a star player then it's because that player stunk that night? Do you always fail to recognize when a checking line or team strategy has a great effort defensivley. A Jacques Martin team will slow other star players down all season long. The logic that an offensive player's performance is not tied to the other team's defensive effort is an obvious fail, in any sport.

Most of this criticism is, like skyline said, based on opinion.

Sabresindc, Buffalo didn't do a real good job of controlling the puck on the PP, and didn't generate many shots from the point, so Vanek didn't get chances even though he was in front of the net.

One game into the schedule is a ridiculous time to assess a player's season.

Now that I've had more coffee, let's dive back in.

I think I mis-read your 'empty net' comment as meaning ENG, so my bad on that one. However, your point still makes no sense. You're going to criticize him for HOW he's scoring now? Good goal scorers can snipe, sure. But they also know how to move to the open areas, and receive passes for easy shots that a goalie has no chance on. I've seen Vanek score on slap shots, score after a deke, score off deflections, score off tips, and score off wrist shots. I don't know about you, but I don't know of many more ways to score a goal.

And finally, Danny fucking Paille is a bigger offensive threat than a perennial 40 goal scorer? Really? You expect to have ANY credibility with anything else you're saying when you make a statement like that?

String the fucker up, I say...

j/k

This team is working under a new set of priorities. While I won't let Vanek off the hook, I see no reason to throw him under the bus as early as some of us are trying to.

Let's watch some games, and gather some evidence - some intel - first. By rule, I always caution folks to adopt a wait and see (10 games in, at the earliest) posture - Approximately 15 games into the season should give a fair indication of where this team, and any particular player on it, stands...

Furthermore, inasmuch as Lowe presented the offer-sheet, Vanek (you'd have to be a fool not to) signed it, and Darcy knee-jerked his way into what is now history...Vanek still needs to realize that sub-par or "average" play will not earn him any affection, with a fanbase that is simply itching to lash out against the first target that might draw their ire.

A shrug won't cut it. Sometimes responsibilities are thrust upon us which we had no intention of assuming - But, we are compelled to shoulder them, nonetheless.

It used to be called "duty". With a big paycheck will necessarily come a heavy load. And TV needs to suck it up and accept such a "fact of life".

Poor naive Squanto. He didn't say empty net, he said open net. Let's be honest for a moment. Goals should really only count if the goalie is looking right at you and covering the net when you shoot. Putting yourself in position to get a shot at a wide open net is little more than getting lucky. Wake up.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I NO RITE

well, just like vanek, you ever notice miller doesnt play a whole 60 minutes himself? on a powerplay, he just sits near his net, waiting to make a save.

so one demensional.

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HAHA, Smartass.

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I think I might be missing something... so Vanek is the only lazy player on the sabres, or the laziest in the league?

but seriously what is he doing so differently then any other player that makes him so 'lazy'?

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"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

Ok, but think of it this way. Are you ok with a guy playing no defense and barely skating all season while cherry picking 40 goals?

I mean, say what you want about the goals, but they are by definition, cherry picking goals. He is NOT taking abuse in front of the net. Those who say he is are not watching the games. Look at game 1, he stood way too far out. He didn't take any abuse. The only times the defenders are attracted to him are the .00001 seconds he has the puck.

No one should be OK with this effort. "Superstars" do not skate about 50 feet a game like Vanek just did. He simply didn't move.

You guys can like stats all you want, but Lazy is Lazy. If he doesn't improve, he'll score 40 this year, and give up 60 alone by his lazy play.

I want effort. Not skating around the blue line and trying to tip pucks when we throw one at the net, it's a bitch way to play, and it hurts the team when he doesn't backcheck.

I could see where you are going, if he was a -30 player. vaneks role is to score by any means necessary, and he does that nearly 40 times a year. a lot of that comes on the pp im sure, but i dont think a pp gives a +/- so its not like he "gave up" 67 or so points last year. (correct me if i am wrong on this one) Next point, i have watched a fair few pittsburgh playoff games and every one of king crosbys goals were "cherry picked" or scored from a sticks length from the goalie. So does this make crosby a bitch player too? (player, not person )

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"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

Crosby hustles though. As much as I think he's a general bitch, he gets in corners for sure, he backchecks...and atleast he has passion, even though it's bitch passion.

Vanek hasn't even heard of a corner (yea I see the future jokes). He doesn't backcheck, and he never plays with fire.

I'd like him to play a little (lot) less like a woman.

Vanek probably didn't break a sweat that game. There was no effort. Other players made mistakes for sure, but atleast they tried.

There was nothing in vanek's game.

So Markus; I can't stand the mystery anymore. Do you like Vanek or not???

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"I'll rap you with my cane; you pencil necked geek!!"

-Bowler, imitating Freddy Blassie, at the very first M & G.