heres some food for thought.

ground zero is sacred ground, right? well what about that huge Lakota Sioux mountain that is sacred ground to that tribe? what did we do with it?



double standards, eh?

_________________

Manifest destiny yo
A lot of things change in 150 years...although now we just have nice little reservations hidden out of sight so no one has to think about those injustices anymore.
Neat trick eh?

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

that particular mountain was called the six grandfathers. it wasnt just some mountain they considered sacred. it was THE mountain.

it sucks.

im all for the "ground zero mosque" and the muslim gay bar they may put next door. respect the ground zero site, but a foot outside of it? open for business.

_________________

It's a free country, if they want to build on a site that Al-Queada destroyed and not the Muslims, let them.

We are free to protest as much as we want. It may be a smack in the face, but the Muslims were the ones who brought the towers down, and that is what everyone thinks. They think Muslims did it, essentially yes, a certain terrorist Muslim group did it, but because some nut jobs did something does not mean all are that way.

_________________

i guess americans can take their cues from post-world war I germany as much as they want as long as they aren't using swastikas. it's sad, though, that instead of a party or candidate influencing the masses it is the mob this time attempting to mold politics to quell the fears that have been instilled by them.

_________________
young people everywhere have been allowed to choose between love and a garbage disposal unit. everywhere they have chosen the garbage disposal unit. (guy debord)

its a matter of respect guys.. do they have the right.. of course they do.. but it shows a complete lack of respect for what that site means to us.. it would be like us building a Mcdonald's or Walmart outside the walls of mecca.. could we.. yea.. would we.. NO, because we have respect for what that site means to those people..

trust me this is a completely political move on there behave.. because when or if someone were to vandalize the place, they would scream hate crime and persecution of their religious rights.. and build up as much sympathy as possible, too push for even more radical things.. and because this country has to be so god damn politically correct. We'll let them, because we don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings..

maybe if we "appease" them they'll stop attacking us and we'll have peace and utopia...

ask the British how that worked with Hitler before WW2

The Sev

_________________
I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

Um. How is it like that at all?

_________________
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hockey Night in Buffalo

it would be disrespectful to what that site means to them. not the greatest analogy but I'm not good at them anyway..

The Sev

_________________
I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

So the same country that just elected the most progressive national leadership in 20 years, including a black President are just a bunch of brown shirts?

Sorry, there is serious discontent in this country and it stems from a crappy economy, not some benign racist nationalism.

Furthermore, the last time I checked we're a representative republic...our politicians are supposed to take their cues from the people, not the other way around.
Although I'm sure you'd prefer strong leadership through a benevolent dictator...those guys can really get shit done.

Here's a tip: Don't invoke Nazi Germany when trying to make a point.
Ever.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

Seconded.

These are Americans..so they ARE us...just saying. Muslims lost their lives during 9/11 along side christians, jews and so on. These are not radical terrorists trying to set up a training camp for suicide bombers. They are Muslim Americans setting up a cultural center with a prayer room. They pay taxes, serve in the military, contribute to their communities, put their hands over their hearts during the National Anthem and tuck their kids into bed after reading a bit of Dr. Seus. They have no ties to terror.

_________________

They have seeked funding from some of the same organizations that have funded terrorist... i don't know if they have received any money from them so I won't mislead people and say they have.. but they have looked for funding that way... and the man leading the way for this mosque is a known advocate for sharia law in America. Just look up some of the things Sharia Law advocates toward women, and the restriction of woman's freedoms.

And you maybe right, but in my opinion these people are not a genuine as you believe. If they are American's just like us, they should realize how much their fellow Americans are against this.. they should understand what that site means. Yes Muslims died that day many did, just like Christians and Jews... its doesn't matter what religion the people that died there were.. it matters that the RADICAL jihadist would see this as a victory for them. Because so many American's are outraged by it. It's not a fact of they "shouldn't build a mosque" its completely about, they shouldn't build a mosque THERE.. move it up toward the Empire State Building, or Central Park.. if it is suppose to be an educational center then why build it in the BUSINESS district move it further up the island. At least for the sake of the people that were affected by 9/11 and there wishes that a mosque NOT be built there. If they are as genuine as you and many other people hope they are, WHY can't they change the site for this mosque? Patterson is even offering them financial aid to move the project so, my question is.. why is THAT site so important to them.. if they just want to be a peaceful educational center which includes a mosque.. why would they have an issue with moving their site to an area in which the citizens of that area agree is more appropriate.

The Sev

_________________
I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

Oh, you mean the money they got from Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal of Saudi Arabia? The same guy who owns 7% of News Corp, the parent company of Fox News?

Why isn't anyone yelling about Fox taking money from this guy?

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING.

Who? Sources please. The only person anyone has brought up is Alwaleed bin Talal and the Kingdom Foundation...same guy who owns a large chunk of News Corp...who owns Fox News. Anyone else?



How do you know this?


There has been a mosque two blocks away from this site for the last 40 years. Do research. This is not on ground zero....it's blocks away.


So we should throw out our country's founding principles of freedom and tolerence because people are upset? Freedom of religion for ALL. Not just you.

Because they don't have to. For instance, if a large group of people who don't like my skin color or religious preference came to my house and asked me to move because I remind them of some other dude that they dont like, and offered to pay for the move...I would tell them to fuck off. Not just "simply move". It's called freedom.

_________________

Those are my views. But i also feel that you make great points. I am not trying to start a flame war or argument. (i don't believe you are either) Everyone does have the rights that you specified, and that is not what i am talking about. It just seems messed up that they would build at that site.

You said: if a large group of people who don't like my skin color or religious preference came to my house and asked me to move because I remind them of some other dude that they don't like, and offered to pay for the move...I would tell them to fuck off.

And i completely agree with you on that. I would do the same exact thing.. but this is different. They aren't trying to move there.. if the mosque were there before 9/11 then there wouldn't be an issue.. we are not asking them to move out.. we want them to reconsider their site because of what that site means the the entire country and ground zero isn't he ground directly below the towers, its every street, building and block that the attacks affected..

this is about a new mosque and educational center.. not an old one. We are not stopping a single person from practicing their faith.

_________________
I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

If the site means so much to the country, why have anything there at all? I mean, I'd hardly say having a strip club and a sex shop within the vicinity of ground zero (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/201 ... corne.html) is hardly what I'd call appropriate for what you seem to be saying is a very sacred spot. There are PLENTY of things right by ground zero. But, because some nutjobs who were Muslim were the cause of such a catastrophe, people of the same religion WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TERRORIST ATTACKS, are not allowed to build a cultural center when there's a strip club right nearby? Something seems kind of wrong about that. I mean, I understand the strip club was likely there before 9/11. I also understand that a cultural center is a big thing, and it is something that will stand out. However, they have every right to do it. And quite honestly, I'd much rather see a cultural center near ground zero than a strip club. Maybe to outsiders, it would show America in a different light.

'Those people' ARE AMERICANS. THEY'RE PART OF THIS COUNTRY.

I'm sorry i don't think anything we will do will show us in a "better light" the radical extremist (not your everyday Muslim) hate us because to the freedoms we give, and because we are not them. That is why they call us infidels, they think that we are a plague that has to be exterminate. Why else would they attack innocent men women and children. No matter race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, or political view... they see American's as infidels... Muslim-Americans are traders and therefore infidels.

Osama Bin Laden, Al-Queda, Hamas, the Taliban and all the other extremist are in a Jihad (HOLY-WAR) against the United States and its citizens. They don't care if we let them build a mosque need ground-zero or not... the only difference would be if some IDIOT were to vandalized this mosque, those terrorist would be able to use that violence as ammunition in the propaganda war and help expand their recruitment . That is my issue.. by building a NEW mosque there they are knowingly creating a powder keg... and yet they still want to move forward.

The Sev

_________________
I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

its not a mosque. its a cultural centre. i can not stress this enough.

_________________

yes but it includes a mosque

_________________
I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..