Who said I was talking about the extremists? Maybe the Muslim-Americans of this country might see this as a step towards something better. Towards not being treated as harshly as they have. Maybe it'd show people that America is maybe getting a little more open minded. And maybe, just maybe, it would better show Americans that the Muslim faith isn't filled with gun toting crazies. Maybe people of the area would better understand the Muslim faith.

And yes, I am aware that a cultural center (notice how I keep saying that and not mosque? Might want to make note of that) could be a "powder keg" and you called it. But, really, those extremists are going to look at anything we do and try to warp it as a way to hate America. So even if some unfortunate idiot did attack this building, it's not as if the extremists would hate us any more than they do already. That's just another bad excuse as to why the building shouldn't be placed there.

That's a great argument.

'They already hate us, so let's just keep giving them reasons to hate us more.'

no no. a mosque is ONLY to be used as a prayer facility. it will have an area for prayer, but it will not be a mosque. its basically a rec centre for muslims with basketball courts and a swimming pool, and class rooms.

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oh, okay. i just won't use any parallels or associations when they prop up. good call. in fact, i should take germany's route and stray away from anything bringing up that particular part of the past.

i know a rebuttal is coming, and that's fine, but it's hard to ignore the similarities when both sides use outdated superstitions to invoke fears which lead to widespread intolerance, book burnings, and the demand for a respect that will never be reciprocated.

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young people everywhere have been allowed to choose between love and a garbage disposal unit. everywhere they have chosen the garbage disposal unit. (guy debord)

Not quite true. Other things can go on in a mosque, just like other things can go on in a Christian church.

I'm not saying that, and I think you know that. It would be retarded if someone were to attack the cultural center. Yes, it would give them reason to hate us more. And I don't in any way want to give them a reason to hate us more, but you can't control what bigots do. However, I don't see the chance that someone attacks it as a reason for it not to be built.

are you sure? i read otherwise.

TO THE INTERNET!

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That was in response to another post. I didn't quote it and you jumped in the middle. Sorry.

It's all good.

They are even planning on opening the doors on Sept 11th 2011.. The 10th anniversary of the attacks.. its just completely disrespectful..

EDIT:
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=119328
here is an line from the link -- Rauf has announced his plans to turn the building into a complete Islamic cultural center, with a mosque, a museum, "merchandising options,"

please read the whole article so you don't think this is taken out of context. but that is right from one of the developers

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I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

Is this solid fact, or is this just something that newspapers have been saying? And this is a legitimate question. Has it been said by the ones who are planning this whole thing, that they plan on opening it this day? Or is this just something that was made up and caught on by the media? 'Cause from what I've noticed, it seems like the latter, but I could be wrong.

i edited my post with a link

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I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

here tom!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38730223/ns ... olbermann/

"There is no training ground for terrorists. There is no insult to the victims of 9/11. There is no tribute to medieval Muslim subjugation of The West. There is, in fact, no "Ground Zero mosque." It isn't a mosque.

A mosque is a Muslim holy place in which only worship can be conducted. What is planned for 45 Park Place, New York City, is a Community Center. It's supposed to include a basketball court. And a cullinary school. It's to be thirteen stories tall and the top two stories will be a Muslim prayer space."

therefore, as i read it from him, its no mosque. if hes wrong, hes wrong. but heres where i got it.

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Bottom line is that there isn't a reason for there not to be a cultural center built two blocks away. It's not ground zero. The only reason I can come up with for the brew ha ha is that too many Americans can't distinguish between Muslims and terrorists. If more people would take a few theology classes, talk to a religious expert or (heaven forbid) stop taking everything they see on tv as fact then we would be a much more tolerant nation.

The so called "sword" passages from the Quran that anti-Islamic people site as teaching their followers to "kill the infidel" were written in a time of war 1500 years ago explaining that Muslims had a right to fight back. It goes on to say that once the enemy stopped aggresive actions to hault because "certainly God does not like the aggressors"(that is a paraphrase). Again, this was 1500 years ago during a time of war and oppression speaking specifically to that time. Radicals have twisted those passages to fit their agenda but the other 1.6 billion Muslims are taught to be peaceful because that is what God intended for us. Just read a bit and stop believing bull shit hate statements and generalizations on tv and the interwebs.

i just got back from class....not proof reading for spelling....me open and drinky a beer.

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I've read other things to the contrary. It's not a big deal, just what I had read. Something I'll look at later.

With respect to the opening on 9/11 thing, maybe you should read the start of the thread. Most everyone agrees that opening the place on that date isn't the way to foster positive relations about the center.

Not getting into it but...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... 978200.htm

One shouldn't use "only", "always" or "never" in most circumstances.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

One thing I'd like to bring up... regardless of whatever date they may have in mind, something tells me it wouldn't even be possible to build a 13 story building in a year (but I could be wrong. I don't know much about buildings). They still aren't anywhere near the building process. So, it's possible that their plan is to open it on some 9/11 in the future (which maybe, but who really knows), but I'd find it hard to believe that they'd have it ready in time for the 10th anniversary, even if they had approval to start building right now. So, there goes that argument.

ding ding ding ding ding. a building this size is at least a 2 year job. unless they build around the clock.

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*shhh...it's not really going to get built at all*


At least that's where my money is.
/If I were a betting man
//which I am

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Hold my beer and watch this...

A church is a place where only worship can happen too....

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