I can sum up the feelings of a lot of my friends, coworkers, and acquaintances:"he's black", and "Bush is bad, war is bad. Bush is a republican, so I'm going to vote for a democrat".

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I don't know why this is even being debated. It's not like I'm making some big dramatic statement that's never been heard before. We can be fairly secure in saying that Obama was elected in part due to an anti-Bush backlash. Any Republican candidate was going to have an uphill battle this past presidential election, simply because people hated Bush. The same deduction applies to 2010 - voters are unhappy and probably a good number of them are impatient with the change or upturn in the economy that they're hoping for. So now we see a big swing back toward republican candidates. From the Huffington Post...

"WASHINGTON – Voters were intensely worried about the future of the economy Tuesday and unhappy with the way President Barack Obama and Congress have been running things. They didn't hold a favorable view of either the Republican or Democratic parties, according to an Associated Press analysis of preliminary exit poll results and pre-election polls. Overwhelmingly, people at the polls were dissatisfied with the way the federal government is working, and a fourth said they're angry about it."

With your reasoning squanto, we may as well not be talking about anything unless we've personally witnessed it, with no deduction or extrapolation what-so-ever. Polls and poll analysis are useless, even though polls tend to be fairly accurate somehow.

Why should this off-topic issue even be brought up? Maybe you just dislike me so much that you're willing to go back against what you said and continue to debate or argue every last little thing with me. At least you didn't blatently violate forum rules as a moderator and insult and curse me this time.

I don't disagree that Obama was partially elected due to anti-Bush sentiment. I also don't disagree that the Republican gains this cycle happened because the promised change didn't happen fast enough.

My reasoning is not that polls are useless and should be ignored. My consternation is based of YOUR words :



It's absolutely impossible for you to have personally observed enough people to decide how a 'good amount' of Obama voters felt about voting for the man. That's my entire point. You're making a sweeping generalization about everyone who voted for Obama based on what you see on TV. That's just dumb. If I were to make some comment about how any Republican that voted for Paladino was a racist homophobe, I think you'd have a similar objection.

If you've got a reputable poll, or something substantive that backs up your claim, I'd love to see it.

And for the record, if you have a problem with something I say, you have 3 other mods that you can file your objections with. Otherwise, stop whining.

The anti-Bush feelings were more complex than just thinking the guy was an idiot though. Two unpopular wars, and an economic slide made a lot of people I know vote for Obama because of a more broad anti-Republican feeling.

As for the change that was promised, I have seen:

A party that told me I could bank on strong health care reform, seeing an end to our wars in the Middle East, gays allowed to serve openly in the military and those responsible for the Wall Street collapse held responsible.

So far: health care was a limp dick version of what we needed (IMO); This "end of the Iraq War" farse was a weak renaming and classification of troop orders to try and please voters; it took two years to get a judge to find don't ask don't tell unconstitutional and that is even up in the air; and Wall Street is business as usual.

Am I pissed? Fuck yes I am. But for me personally and those I know who have talked about it, we'd rather not let the GOP have control again.....especially with the widening gap between parties. Those who used to be on the right side of the GOP are quickly being pushed to the middle because of Tea Party and GOP restructuring. That scares me. I don't want the decisions of this country being left up to, what I see as, nut job right wingers who's views don't come close to representing my own. Now if we could, like Stewart suggests, get back to some sort of reality and sanity where people don't call their opponents a Nazi then I might see more Rep candidates that I could concider voting for. But like I said, with the nuttiness I am seeing I'll stick with broken promises instead of a potentially worse alternative.

This is all my opinion by the way. If you have a different view then respond like a grown up.

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When the three judicial branches are of the same party, there is no checks and balances.

When do we have success? When the checks and balances exist. I'm pissed that my fellow Americans are too goddamn stupid to realize that.

Squanto, you quote 1980


He even says SOME...in his observation, and that's a qualifying statement.

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Ok then sqaunto, the first sentence you quoted I clarified after Yankee got upset. Again, obviously not all Obama voters feel any one certain way. You're still arguing about it though even after the clarification.

As for the second sentence, here's the full version..."I've heard and seen Obama voters on radio and TV speak about how they feel let down because "hope and change" hasn't happened yet. I've observed enough of this to be secure in saying some or a good amount of Obama voters feel this way."

I said "...observed enough of this...", as in "Obama voters on radio and TV", not as if I personally witnessed people, although just like NYIntensity I have talked to enough friends and co-workers, etc. who feel the same way. This is not a "...sweeping generalization about everyone who voted for Obama...". That is a fair deduction about "some or a good amount" (I don't know, but it's a safe range), which FWIW was also based on pre-vote polling that I just didn't bother to also mention.

You're just nitpicking though. And your response about cursing me is flat out ridiculous. You chose to blatently violate forum rules, as a moderator no less. I say something about it (without cursing) and your follow-up is to say, "stop whining". That's real classy. If I did complain to another moderator you could have called that whining too. You have handled this thread, and me in general over the last few weeks, with the temperment of a nine year old. I've been taking the high road through all of this, but somehow you see my willingness to debate topics as arrogance and have taken it much too personally (when it's not personal at all to me).

What would a complaint do anyway? I know Crosscheck and SATW are reading this stuff. I don't need to point it out to them. I don't care if you get a "time out" or keep posting here, as long as you can keep your head on straight, manage to not take this stuff personally, and not insult and/or curse me as well. I could respond to you the same way I did to ETC before he got banned, but being right about it doesn't mean it's worth bringing down the forum with expletives.

As my Dad always says:

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DP, you represent some of the people I was talking about, except that you are secure enough in what you want from politics and your congressmen that you won't knee-jerk vote the other way out of impatience. I wish there could be a no party system where candidates were forced to define themselves independently without riding a pre-arranged party line description. I guess we all have dreams...

So if you want to debate or question a point, it's ok. But, if I do it, then I'm just doing it to attack you personally.

Right. Double standard much?

I'm done. I'm sick and tired of all this bullshit.

I've gotten to the point where to me it seems that the corruption has sank so deep that I feel like the true opinions, needs and desires of Americans are being ignored in favor of money and air time. To go further, I feel that the media has become a tool of the politicians who use it to shape and control those opinions and desires by using lies and fear mongering. For example, Hannity came on the air and twisted Obama's statement about the Rep's not getting the keys back into some crazy racist, anti..uum..something...slur. A total lie but broadcast as fact by a news organization to the public.

We have been told we need to pick a side and then are spoon fed a slurry mix of lies and fear by news network cheer leaders. Now we have two parties reflecting this media created division so instead of working together to make this country better, they have to walk party lines which makes it impossible to acomplish anything in Washington.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.