It doesn't say that you can't freely leave the airport.

That was the point.

You're getting scanned, groped or fined.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

IF you get to the checkpoint and then refuse, which can be determined to be suspicious? I mean, a little more awareness could probably curb that trend pretty quickly, so your original statement turns into "You're getting scanned or groped."

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I'd like to point out that this section is for international travel TO the US. It's not listed in the section regarding DOMESTIC flights.

The section most easily found is :

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/screening ... oints.shtm

Which links to :

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... _1049.shtm

Which has no mention of the backscatter machines, or an individual's option to not use them.

It's just an ass backwards idea.

When someone gets to the security checkpoint, they have a goal: get on their flight. If something happens during their security screening and they are refused entry to the secure area, they're then saying they have to clear security to leave. How does that makes sense? You've already failed security once for whatever reason. How the hell are you going to all of a sudden pass the security check you just failed to leave the building? That's a slippery legal position, pretty damn near close to unlawful imprisonment if you ask me.

The idea that a terrorist is going to probe security by intentionally failing is just silly. Potential terrorists don't want to draw attention to themselves. They don't want a name on a list of people that have ben rejected at security that could tie them back to others. They'll go through it just like everyone else, observing, and trying to find a flaw they can exploit.

And that's acceptable for domestic travel by a US citizen?

We used to have protections from our government against "unreasonable search and seizure"...I swear, I read it somewhere a long time ago.

I guess the desire to travel now constitutes probable cause.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

When you buy a ticket to fly you are consenting to the search, kinda fine print shit. probably cause is criminal search and seizure. This is a civil matter so it does not fall under that realm.

I just realized that the time on the forum hasn't changed with the time change....I thought I was late leaving work, freaked me out a bit

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You both made good points that have me thinking; I'm not arguing, I'm digesting. Sometimes I really enjoy these forums.

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Fuck you hippie!

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Maybe if they allowed opposite sex groping for those who refuse the scanner, this would be less of an issue.

This is gonna sound straight out of Jackass, but how about if a guy puts a prosthesis/dildo type thing on his junk that makes it look like he has a gigantic member and balls, and then demands the groping?

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This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Emerson

I don't blame people for feeling uncomfortable about airport screenings, but it is a choice. I happen to be the type of person that would do anything to defeat or nullify an enemy tactic, so these machines don't faze me in the least. I've done enough uncomfortable things (surveillance for hours in blazing heat, crawling under vehicles or through woods/bushes/creeks in the rain, bug bites and not eating for twelve hours or more) in that effort, so a body scan or even a groping search is a minor inconvenience. That's just me though, because I want to the terrorist to know that I'm tougher, more committed, more determined and willing to beat him. I would walk through the screening area naked if I had to, and I wouldn't feel violated or that my liberty or the American way of life has vanished before my eyes.

The terrorist leader like Bin Laden might take satisfaction that our "rights" or way of life has supposedly been diminished, but the average terrorist blow-up guy won't be too impressed with that. He still eats dirt and demands that his woman lives behind a mask while we become rich in his eyes, obese, and screw loose women. He wants blood and dead bodies. As long as our baggage and other procedures are checked appropriately, I can laugh at the terrorist as I defeat his intentions with my utter determination to travel safely, no matter what supposed embarrassment or diminished rights I subject myself to.

We are all so used to being in our comfort zone that we start to think some things are God given rights from birth. We start to think anything about flying or travel in general is supposed to be easy because it used to be that way. We start to turn on the poor schmucks at TSA because they are the ones tasked with these procedures, instead of turning on the ultimate culprits with the same vigor. We make a big scene to promote a blog and personal interest at the expense of some random TSA guy that didn't make the rules in the first place, and the expense of the other passengers that had to wait through his routine. We start to turn on ourselves with bickering and such, perhaps making the Bin Laden's just as satisfied as if we had to travel naked.

As I said, those that feel uncomfortable about airport security and even vote or protest against it can have at it. That's just as valid a choice as flying in the first place. I however, as well as some others, think differently - with a bigger, tactical, psuedo-military mindset that is intent on defeating the enemy or at least nullifying their every effort at violence. The idea of liberty is a lot bigger of a concept to me than the issue of a screening agent looking under my clothes or groping my body on the way to my destination. I'm not trying to demean how others feel, but "liberty" means a hell of a lot more to me than that stuff.

Consenting to a search doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. Hence the 'unreasonable' part of 'unreasonable search and seizure'.

Once could argue that a virtual strip search of a person accused of no crime inside the borders of the United States at any time is unreasonable. That is, unless you assume that every airline passenger is a terrorist threat, which kinda flies in the face of innocent until proven guilty.

Domestic flights are a lot more relaxed, or they should be. If these procedures were more result and less theatre then I woould be on board in a snap but this is a smoke screen. They need the public to "feel" like they are being protected. It's like slamming someone in a car accident full of morphine. I mean, their legs are still off but they 'feel' better.

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Penn Jillette writes about his recent run-in with the TSA

http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstu ... alvip.html

Best line: " freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more of it."

EDIT: just realized that was from '02, but the behavior still applies.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

There's a vid floating around of a TSA agent 'patting down' a 3 year old kid who is flipping out while her mother is trying to calm her down.

If I was the dad I would have put my phone down and kicked the teeth of that TSA screener in, but that's just me. He was a reporter for some station and decided to tape it instead.

EDIT: Can't embed, but here : http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/11/17/ ... -for-kids/

Oh, and the head of the TSA today said 'children under 12 are not subject to enhanced pat downs'.

That was absolutely revolting to watch.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Absolutely terrible... Honestly...

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

Think about it though...if you DON'T search kids, then where are you going to put your drugs and bombs? On kids...

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

Yep. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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Unreasonable, maybe. Illegal, not at all. When you purchase the airline ticket you are AUTOMATICALLY consenting to whatever security screening required. Courts have sided with the FAA when it comes to the searches http://library.findlaw.com/2004/Apr/7/133382.html

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