Well, I think they'd have to demonstrate a real change first.

I know it sounds like I'm defending Vick, and I don't want to minimize the horrible things he did to dogs, but honestly, I think there's a cultural gap here. I doubt we have many black members here, so maybe it's a little tough for us to understand where Vick is coming from. I think dog fighting is something he was exposed to and knew was illegal, but that he probably viewed the way some of us view say, marijuana. It's illegal but everybody does it anyway. So maybe he never really questioned what he was doing since it was a common thing. I honestly do think he might get it now. I think he came out of prison severely humbled and he now realizes just how blessed he is with the life he has. Everyone has been telling this guy how great he is since he was in high school, or maybe even longer. Sooner or later, that's got to go to your head and make you think you can do anything without repercussions. So there are a number of things going on in his case. But if people really are capable of profound change, I think he's a prime candidate for a major re-evaluation and that he knows he fucked up and doesn't want to do it again.

I heard and read that he killed 9 dogs total.

He electrocuted, shot, stabbed, beat, and drowned dogs. 9 times. He made them fight. This continued for a while.

You really think he deserves a dog??? I don't.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

I agree with this... Based on the actions he has taken that have not been court-ordered, at this point I am much more comfortable not questioning his sincerity.

He still needs to live with the consequences of his actions, though. Due to its rather dichotomistic nature, law obviously cannot allow for grace.

Edit:
Regarding your previous post, Michael Vick was given a sentence more than twice what was recommended by prosecutors. I believe it was due to his disrespectful behavior during the trial, but the celebrity thing may have been a factor as well.

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Miles to go before I sleep

‎"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation."
-Khalil Gibran

I'm really torn on how I feel about Vick. On the one hand, I know it's really awful what he did to those dogs and he deserved to be punished for it. On the other, he served his time and is now on probation and will probably never be allowed to forget about it.

I was watching a TV show on Animal Planet about animal rescuers and one story they featured showed two younger boys who had two dogs confiscated for dog fighting. One was a stray puppy they were trying to use to make the dog vicious. Another was the pitbull. The boys had used rubber bands on its ears for two days, so as to numb them, and then cut them off using scissors. I kid you not that these boys were in their early teens. I don't think the dog was exposed to fighting very long, but the shelter has a policy to put all pitbulls involved in fighting to sleep. I felt so awful because the dog seemed so well-behaved, but because she had fighting tendencies and could be a threat to someone who adopted her, she had to be euthanized. Completely unfair.

The boys did not show remorse, however, for their actions. They watch gang members with "money" doing this and want to be just like them. They don't see a way out of their lifestyle and think it's the cool thing to do. It's obviously wrong and cruel, but some people are not raised or believed to think so. The boys' stepfather knew what they were doing and did nothing to punish them or stop it and did not take the dog to see a vet after her ears were cut off. If you grow up thinking it's okay with respect to your social surroundings, you are not going to be affected like someone like us who are disgusted by it. I could not ever imagine doing something of this nature to a dog, but some people grow up thinking it is completely normal.

like

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"I love that you know how to do that." Cheryl/Carol/Crystal

"And I love that I have an erection that doesn't involve homeless people." Kreiger

I'm fine with what he said in response to the question. As Tom pointed out, Vick isn't lobbying to get a dog, he was merely asked if he would like to own one in the future, and he responded in the affirmative. Fine.

I like Vick quite a bit. I like what he's done with himself after his incarceration, and I wish most former convicts had his desire to again become a productive member of society. I feel a lot of the hatred for him is misplaced. It almost seems that a lot of people are rooting for him to fail just so they can be angry at him again and have a place to vent their rage.

As far as letting him own another pet, I don't know how I feel about that. I think that the fact that he is very much in the public eye, coupled with the fact that he's turned away (I believe on several occasions) the former friends who were involved with him with the dogfighting ring suggest that the Vick household would be a safe place for an animal. I mean if Vick ever did get a dog, there would be people hawking him day and night to ensure he didn't fuck up.

I think the fact that dogs are involved, and there is such an emotional attachment to them is coloring people's opinons so much that a lot are unable to speak rationally about it. People don't have a problem with the act itself, they have a problem because of who the victims were. Take out dogs and insert roosters or rats, or mongooses, or even cats and no one probably gives a shit. That leads me to believe that people's desire to see him punished stems not from their disapproval of his actions, but from their desire to seek revenge on behalf of the victims.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

People dont have a problem with forcing two creatures to fight almost to the death, and then personally killing the loser in a very violent fashion? What fucking people do you hang out with?

I'll admit that I have unavoidable bias, being a pitbull owner/lover of the breed, but I also have a cat, have in fact been the steward of plenty of different animals over the years...and the thought of someone forcing cats to do this drives me just as mad. Or Guinea pigs, or birds of any sort, or ANYTHING. Granted, there is less uproar over animals who evoke less of an emotional reaction in people, but it's about not being a fucking monster. About having empathy and care for all creatures and not GETTING MY FUCKING JOLLIES BY MAKING THEM FIGHT.

It's not about the act? Wrong.

Actually, if a man who tortures and rapes defenseless children wants to adopt a child to show the world how much he cares, I would be outraged.

And he's leading the Pro Bowl in voting? He should be put down.

It's defenseless animals, it's incumbent upon us to treat these creatures with dignity. And dogs especially, a dog would give it's LIFE for a human, WITHOUT QUESTION! IT WOUDL LITERALLY GIVE IT'S LIFE!

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"I love that you know how to do that." Cheryl/Carol/Crystal

"And I love that I have an erection that doesn't involve homeless people." Kreiger

Michael Vick deserves to be leading the NFL in Pro Bowl votes. He has been playing remarkably well. Roger Goodell said it was okay for him to come back to play, the Eagles signed him after no one wanted him, he wasn't even set to start this year and the Eagles were dead set on Kevin Kolb being their starter, Kolb goes down with a concussion and Vick had an incredible game and has played incredibly well ever since. Vick worked so hard to get back into football shape and continues to have a strong work ethic. ESPN reported that when he played for Atlanta that he would be the last one to show up to practice and the first one to leave. Now, it's the exact opposite. He has also thanked the Eagles numerous times for signing him and giving him a chance in the NFL again. It hasn't been without hard work, though.

Vick's life was destroyed for his actions and he is still paying for it. Literally. He filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy because he was making under a dollar a day while in prison, all while having to support a family, and got ripped off by his investors and those handling his money. I'm not saying that some of the reasons he had to file for bankruptcy were unjust; he had to pay back his $19.97 million signing bonus back to the Falcons because he signed the contract while doing something illegal and used the funds to support the dog fighting ring. I am saying, though, that he has been extremely humbled by the experience.

You can tell Vick is happy to have a second chance and I don't think he's going to do something to fuck that up again. Vick owes a lot to the Philadelphia Eagles and with the way he has been playing, they owe a lot to him. Kevin Kolb would never be able to win the way Vick has. Vick has been doing his JOB. Doesn't everyone want to see convicts do something productive for society? I like seeing Michael Vick doing so well and using his celebrity to go talk to inner-city children about why dog fighting is wrong; demonstrating to people that you don't have to do something so cruel and vicious to make it big, which is the picture painted in the inner-city.

If Michael Vick is truly rehabilitated, he should be able to own a dog when his probation is over. I don't think dog fighting is something you exactly fall into bad habits with again, as I don't feel it's an addiction. I'm happy Michael Vick is doing so well and I hope he continues to be humbled after the incident, remembering that he almost did not have a second chance.

I agree with everything you said.

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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hockey Night in Buffalo

i don't really care about michael vick or what he does. i just have one thing to say...

never forget.

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young people everywhere have been allowed to choose between love and a garbage disposal unit. everywhere they have chosen the garbage disposal unit. (guy debord)

That should have been put in a spoiler... That is just something I did not want to see.

As of Vick, he's not sorry. He's just not. He killed 9 dogs and fought dogs. He didn't just do it once as a mistake, he did it several times for years. He was also probably hanging around with bad people. Didn't he have a birthday party or something and gun shots were fired over the summer?

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

Need I remind everyone animal abuse charges are 5-25 years in jail and Vick only got 2?

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

I agree that should have been spoiler tagged. Edited.

You also don't know that Vick isn't sorry. You just don't. He was brought up in an environment that dog fighting was cool. That's a disgusting environment, and you'd hope one that gets squashed out.

It's no different than the Phelps family. Do you think all those kids were born as deviant racist bigots, or do you think that they became that way because of their environment?

It's very possible that his eyes have been opened to the fact that he was doing something despicable. He also could be putting on a good act. I dunno.

Once a gangbanger doesn't make you a gangbanger for life. People can change. The new DA in Del Norte County, California used to be a strung out meth head who was almost killed in a bad deal just 7 years ago. People can change.

The prosecution recommended that Vick receive 12-18 months on the federal charges. The judge gave him 23.

He didn't get off easy.

He got off easy because the minimum is 5 years. He's a celebrity. He got 23 months.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

He got the longest sentence out of the group of 4 men charged in the case. That's hardly a celebrity getting off easy.

Minimum is 5 years.

He didn't even get 2.

Sorry, that's getting off easy.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

MAXIMUM is 5 years. Not minimum.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3140049

Alright, I didn't mean in terms of absolutes, though I said it that way, so points off on me. I merely wanted to point out the cute bias that people have when things like this happen, that the fact that it's dogs makes this so much more of a hot button issue with people. I still think that this wouldn't get a tenth of the media coverage or outrage if it were any other animal which I think disturbs me more than what Vick actually did. Hell, didn't some MLB pitcher go to a cockfight a few years back? No one cared about that.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual