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Sabresfansince1980
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:47 pm 
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At the risk of a pointless back and forth exchange, I'll object to that.

Take a look at the talent that has left Buffalo the last 5-6 years and it doesn't amount to a whole lot. A popular ex-Sabre is Dumont, but what has he done that's so overwhelming? Campbell won a cup, but didn't do anything particular to earn his whopping contract and still plays shaky defense. Briere has been up and down, but at least he's been up at times since leaving. Drury has fallen off the map. That leaves Briere as the only impact player that could've made a difference since leaving.

Drafting has been a problem, with 1st rd busts including my all-time favorite - Persson over Nick Foligno. But it wasn't Darcy that decided to go to video scouting only, so he's been totally hamstrung in that area.

I've got my complaints (deadline deals for Moore, Torres) but they aren't so egregious, the Quinn factor cannot be ignored with re-signings, and the successful style Buffalo had from 05-07 was cut short by a return to clutch and grab, so Regier shouldn't be made out as the big loser here. He's well respected around the league and I think being in a well funded organization that actually puts winning as the priority would show Regier to be more effective GM than you and many others want to give him credit for.


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fan4life61
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:51 pm 
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OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.


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Displaced Fan
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:52 pm 
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I think that looking at what players have done since leaving Buffalo doesn't tell us much about our situation. Sure they haven't been putting up the numbers they used to while here but one could argue that chemistry is what we had here in the Brierre/Drury years and not keeping that chemistry here is what I was always pissed about.

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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:55 pm 
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OldTimeHockey wrote:
So its okay for him to pocket the money, but it wasn't okay for a player to pocket the money to fill in obvious needs for the playoff push...when we've missed the playoffs 6 out of the last what 9 seasons?


It's one thing for Darcy to accept a salary from the organization.

It's another thing for Darcy to not be allowed to spend the organization's money.


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Sabresfansince1980
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
I think that looking at what players have done since leaving Buffalo doesn't tell us much about our situation. Sure they haven't been putting up the numbers they used to while here but one could argue that chemistry is what we had here in the Brierre/Drury years and not keeping that chemistry here is what I was always pissed about.


I won't give you chemistry so much as how the game changed back to clutch and grab. OTOH, watching both B/D leave did cement an already lingering opinion among Sabres and league players in general that Buffalo is a cheap-skate organization. That hurts as much as the small town, small market reputation the team has to deal with during free agency.

What Pegula may be able to do is change that reputation and make Buffalo a team that UFAs are no longer unwilling to consider. It will take filling out a competent front office and re-staffing the scouting department, and then paying for top talent on the ice (even they aren't necessarily worth every dollar). The reputation the team and city have will take a while to change, and it will take losing money to do it. We'll have to wait and see just how willing Pegula is to lose money that way.


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X-pensfan
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:41 pm 
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OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.



He actually drafts exceptionally well, and the first year after the lockout was a relative unknown for all GMs, Regier's only fault was perhaps developing TOO GOOD of a team all at once. Nobody really knew then what UFA's would be getting, and a lot of those GM's probably regret the contracts that they made with those players, especially Drury who is pretty much useless on an NHL roster right now.

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daz28
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:27 pm 
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I think this sums up a lot of fans idea of what DR did:

what we should have had for 16 million: DB, CD, TV

what we ended up with: TC, JH, TV


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PuckSniperPensel
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:34 pm 
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daz28 wrote:
I think this sums up a lot of fans idea of what DR did:

what we should have had for 16 million: DB, CD, TV

what we ended up with: TC, JH, TV


Perfect, Daz.

Or better yet, DB and CD for 12 million, and a couple of Edmonton's first round draft picks.

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daz28
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:39 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
daz28 wrote:
I think this sums up a lot of fans idea of what DR did:

what we should have had for 16 million: DB, CD, TV

what we ended up with: TC, JH, TV


Perfect, Daz.

Or better yet, DB and CD for 12 million, and a couple of Edmonton's first round draft picks.

Oh cut it out, you have no idea if they would have still made that offer sheet, or even if EDM would have still been a pro hockey team. /sarcasm.


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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:52 am 
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I'll just leave this here...

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article330800.ece

Quote:
News hockey columnist Bucky Gleason will chat at 9:30 a.m. Thursday on the Sabres Edge blog in advance of a press conference called to discuss the sale of the Buffalo Sabres.


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OldTimeHockey
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:20 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.



He actually drafts exceptionally well, and the first year after the lockout was a relative unknown for all GMs, Regier's only fault was perhaps developing TOO GOOD of a team all at once. Nobody really knew then what UFA's would be getting, and a lot of those GM's probably regret the contracts that they made with those players, especially Drury who is pretty much useless on an NHL roster right now.


You really think he drafts well? Okay, I find that he needs to hit on more top picks. 12 years of 1st round picks and I'm not overly impressed. I mean I'm not expecting a 5th and 7th round killing that Detroit make with Zetterberg and Datsuyk, but where are the superstars that other teams get in the first round?

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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:27 pm 
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OldTimeHockey wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.



He actually drafts exceptionally well, and the first year after the lockout was a relative unknown for all GMs, Regier's only fault was perhaps developing TOO GOOD of a team all at once. Nobody really knew then what UFA's would be getting, and a lot of those GM's probably regret the contracts that they made with those players, especially Drury who is pretty much useless on an NHL roster right now.


You really think he drafts well? Okay, I find that he needs to hit on more top picks. 12 years of 1st round picks and I'm not overly impressed. I mean I'm not expecting a 5th and 7th round killing that Detroit make with Zetterberg and Datsuyk, but where are the superstars that other teams get in the first round?

Mostly it requires you to draft first overall or second, or even third. The Sabres had the 5th overall pick once, we got Vanek with it.

Blame the team on not fully sucking for him to not able to land one of these said superstars.

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PuckSniperPensel
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:17 pm 
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The Myers and Ennis selections were good ones.

Kassian is looking like he will turn out to be a good pick.

In 2007 we didn't have a 1st rounder, but we did pick up Paul Byron in the 6th round. He's no god, but we get to see a bit more of him tomorrow, and he's had a good first couple of games.

2008 saw us grab Luke Adam in the 2nd round. I think he's going to be a very good player.

Marcus Foligno in the 3rd round of 2009.

Mike Weber, 2nd round of 2006.

Gerbs, 5th round of 2005.

They haven't done a terrible job drafting. And in all honesty, it seems as though their drafting has gotten BETTER since they went to the video scouting.

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X-pensfan
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:32 pm 
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OldTimeHockey wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.



He actually drafts exceptionally well, and the first year after the lockout was a relative unknown for all GMs, Regier's only fault was perhaps developing TOO GOOD of a team all at once. Nobody really knew then what UFA's would be getting, and a lot of those GM's probably regret the contracts that they made with those players, especially Drury who is pretty much useless on an NHL roster right now.


You really think he drafts well? Okay, I find that he needs to hit on more top picks. 12 years of 1st round picks and I'm not overly impressed. I mean I'm not expecting a 5th and 7th round killing that Detroit make with Zetterberg and Datsuyk, but where are the superstars that other teams get in the first round?



He (they) found Miller with a 5th rounder and Ennis, Kassian, and Myers were great picks albeit you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to recognize their value. They were rated #1 in drafting by ESPN and I don't think you just pull a number out of a hat to come up with that distinction.

The Sabres are never without hope, and they have never been without hope. You can't ever say that they are a beaten team because they always have great young talent ready to show what they can do and they always have fight in them thanks to Lindy Ruff's leadership.

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sabresEH
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:14 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.



He actually drafts exceptionally well, and the first year after the lockout was a relative unknown for all GMs, Regier's only fault was perhaps developing TOO GOOD of a team all at once. Nobody really knew then what UFA's would be getting, and a lot of those GM's probably regret the contracts that they made with those players, especially Drury who is pretty much useless on an NHL roster right now.


You really think he drafts well? Okay, I find that he needs to hit on more top picks. 12 years of 1st round picks and I'm not overly impressed. I mean I'm not expecting a 5th and 7th round killing that Detroit make with Zetterberg and Datsuyk, but where are the superstars that other teams get in the first round?



He (they) found Miller with a 5th rounder and Ennis, Kassian, and Myers were great picks albeit you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to recognize their value. They were rated #1 in drafting by ESPN and I don't think you just pull a number out of a hat to come up with that distinction.

The Sabres are never without hope, and they have never been without hope. You can't ever say that they are a beaten team because they always have great young talent ready to show what they can do and they always have fight in them thanks to Lindy Ruff's leadership.

I could be reading this wrong but Myers wasn't exactly an easy pick too make. Noone knew what would come of him. Honestly in his draft year he played like dogshit. It was a very high risk high reward pick.

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OldTimeHockey
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.



He actually drafts exceptionally well, and the first year after the lockout was a relative unknown for all GMs, Regier's only fault was perhaps developing TOO GOOD of a team all at once. Nobody really knew then what UFA's would be getting, and a lot of those GM's probably regret the contracts that they made with those players, especially Drury who is pretty much useless on an NHL roster right now.


You really think he drafts well? Okay, I find that he needs to hit on more top picks. 12 years of 1st round picks and I'm not overly impressed. I mean I'm not expecting a 5th and 7th round killing that Detroit make with Zetterberg and Datsuyk, but where are the superstars that other teams get in the first round?

Mostly it requires you to draft first overall or second, or even third. The Sabres had the 5th overall pick once, we got Vanek with it.

Blame the team on not fully sucking for him to not able to land one of these said superstars.


If you're going to be that team that's drafting in the mid to later teens than you should do everything possible to either trade up or trade out of that pick and try to get picks for the following draft.

Other teams do it and end up with the Sedin brothers, we end up with Novotny, Roy, Thornburn, Pominville.

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OldTimeHockey
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:31 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.



He actually drafts exceptionally well, and the first year after the lockout was a relative unknown for all GMs, Regier's only fault was perhaps developing TOO GOOD of a team all at once. Nobody really knew then what UFA's would be getting, and a lot of those GM's probably regret the contracts that they made with those players, especially Drury who is pretty much useless on an NHL roster right now.


You really think he drafts well? Okay, I find that he needs to hit on more top picks. 12 years of 1st round picks and I'm not overly impressed. I mean I'm not expecting a 5th and 7th round killing that Detroit make with Zetterberg and Datsuyk, but where are the superstars that other teams get in the first round?



He (they) found Miller with a 5th rounder and Ennis, Kassian, and Myers were great picks albeit you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to recognize their value. They were rated #1 in drafting by ESPN and I don't think you just pull a number out of a hat to come up with that distinction.

The Sabres are never without hope, and they have never been without hope. You can't ever say that they are a beaten team because they always have great young talent ready to show what they can do and they always have fight in them thanks to Lindy Ruff's leadership.


I'm not saying that NHL drafting is the easiest thing, in fact I think its the hardest of all the 4 major sports, but your GM should hit more than he misses. Regier misses more than he hits.

But Debate is dead. I'm talking about a 12 year career and the rebuttal to my argument is a 5th round pick, 1 first rounds picks who are off to good starts and a guy who isn't even on the team.

Regier has been here 12 years and a couple of good ones recently hasn't removed the WTF factor from the majority of his drafts.

We're talking about a GM who is so poor at drafting European and Russian players that he just doesn't do hardly at all anymore.

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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:26 pm 
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That's fucking bullshit and you know it. Drafting in the NHL is always hit and miss, you can make a seelction in the 7th round and he end up being Datsyuk or make a first round pick and it end up being a complete and utter failure regardless of how well or how high he was rated.

The NHL is not a league were you pick random guys and hope he can flourish into a great player

Every GM has drafted more busts then they have superstars, if you want to argue that, then be my guest, just go look through the drafts and see which players actually play for the teams they get drafted by and tell me the ratio of picks GM's make that actually work out and those that don't. I would bet that it's close to 1 player our of every 5 a GM picks plays in the NHL or has a long career.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:47 pm 
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sabresEH wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
OldTimeHockey wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sometimes even good GMs don't bring home championships.

There's a reason it's the hardest one to win.


Its especially hard when you don't resign your talent and draft poorly.



He actually drafts exceptionally well, and the first year after the lockout was a relative unknown for all GMs, Regier's only fault was perhaps developing TOO GOOD of a team all at once. Nobody really knew then what UFA's would be getting, and a lot of those GM's probably regret the contracts that they made with those players, especially Drury who is pretty much useless on an NHL roster right now.


You really think he drafts well? Okay, I find that he needs to hit on more top picks. 12 years of 1st round picks and I'm not overly impressed. I mean I'm not expecting a 5th and 7th round killing that Detroit make with Zetterberg and Datsuyk, but where are the superstars that other teams get in the first round?



He (they) found Miller with a 5th rounder and Ennis, Kassian, and Myers were great picks albeit you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to recognize their value. They were rated #1 in drafting by ESPN and I don't think you just pull a number out of a hat to come up with that distinction.

The Sabres are never without hope, and they have never been without hope. You can't ever say that they are a beaten team because they always have great young talent ready to show what they can do and they always have fight in them thanks to Lindy Ruff's leadership.

I could be reading this wrong but Myers wasn't exactly an easy pick too make. Noone knew what would come of him. Honestly in his draft year he played like dogshit. It was a very high risk high reward pick.


Right. That required Regier to make a judgment call. I think he made the right call.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: Bucky on Regier
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
That's fucking bullshit and you know it. Drafting in the NHL is always hit and miss, you can make a seelction in the 7th round and he end up being Datsyuk or make a first round pick and it end up being a complete and utter failure regardless of how well or how high he was rated.

The NHL is not a league were you pick random guys and hope he can flourish into a great player

Every GM has drafted more busts then they have superstars, if you want to argue that, then be my guest, just go look through the drafts and see which players actually play for the teams they get drafted by and tell me the ratio of picks GM's make that actually work out and those that don't. I would bet that it's close to 1 player our of every 5 a GM picks plays in the NHL or has a long career.


Two words: Alexander Daigle

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