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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:55 pm 
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Things aren't going his way this year like they did last year.

You never know, it's not like he's been absolutely terrible these past few months, the team has played much better and so has he. He started the year out pretty badly, but currently, 31 straight games is getting to the guy.

Next year if he has a season like last year, then what are we going to say then? He's a great starting goaltender and can steal away some games.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.
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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:57 pm 
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dbsabres06 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
fly as hale wrote:
It's both.

NYIntensity wrote:
I'm honestly 100% ready to part with him; he's had one amazing season, some pretty good ones, and the rest have been at or below average.

This is bullshit. Aside from last season, he's never really been a stats leader, but that doesn't mean he has played average. He is a clutch goaltender who makes big saves at crucial times. Anyone who has watched him in the playoffs can attest to that. So I don't know where you're getting that he's been average or below average during his career aside from last season, because that simply isn't the case. Take your eyes away from the stats books and watch him play.

He has been struggling this season, there is no question. But he's known league-wide as being one of the best goaltenders in the game, and it's not just because of last year.

The only times I can recall him having disappointing seasons is this one (so far) and when his cousin died.



This. You can't expect a Vezina EVERY season, that's just not realistic. When the playoffs start there is only one statistic that matters, and only one ranking that will decide wether or not Miller's season was a success or a failure. Where they are in the standings, either they get in or they don't. Today they inched a point closer, it's not the end of the world that they lost in OT. Most of the isle goals were actually really nice goals especially all 3 of grabner's who is one hell of a hockey player.

The thing is, Ruff is overplaying Miller and he will be shot come playoff time for sure. I guarantee it. So a shrewd GM might actually trade for a more talented backup like Ty Conklin, because you never know....


haha that's funny because we traded for conklin a few trade deadlines ago and he stunk it up.



haha I did not know that.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:14 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I have to agree with you here. I believe, even with his poor play this season, Miller's stats are on par with other goalies in his pay class ($5M up) over the past few years, I just don't think that he's $4-$5M more valuable than someone like Enroth.

How could you say something like that, Enroth has no track record to base that off. Are you just basing that off stats alone, because that's stupid.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:19 pm 
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fly as hale wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I have to agree with you here. I believe, even with his poor play this season, Miller's stats are on par with other goalies in his pay class ($5M up) over the past few years, I just don't think that he's $4-$5M more valuable than someone like Enroth.

How could you say something like that, Enroth has no track record to base that off. Are you just basing that off stats alone, because that's stupid.



Because I don't think he's 600% better than enroth, not at a position that is heavily dependent on the performance of the rest of the team and will never ever win you a hockey game. I think the Red Wings get it right. Throw pennies at a solid guy who can get streaky and let the rest of the team win hockey games.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:20 pm 
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If you really think about it, many of the greatest goalies in the NHL today have been criticized for being overrated at some point. Luongo, Lundqvist, Price, Fleury, even Brodeur. They have been considered busts or simply overrated at some point. I guess it just comes with the position. Goaltending can be a thankless job sometimes.

I think Corey Griswold (he used to write for WGR 550), had some valid points on Twitter earlier that I totally agree with regarding Miller's stats:

Miller's strength has always been his clutch. He was rarely a statistically dominant goalie. Thats why last year was such an outlier.

He stood on his head to get them to the conference finals against the Senators.

You shouldn't base how much a player should make (especially a goaltender) on stats alone.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:26 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:

Because I don't think he's 600% better than enroth, not at a position that is heavily dependent on the performance of the rest of the team and will never ever win you a hockey game. I think the Red Wings get it right. Throw pennies at a solid guy who can get streaky and let the rest of the team win hockey games.

Okay, well the way the Red Wings build a team isn't a be all end all way to a championship. I've said it a million times before. There is no set way to win a Cup. Some teams don't build a team around an all-star goaltender to win a Cup. Some teams go out and overspend on big name players. Some teams decide to build from within or choose a franchise player to build a team around.

All because Detroit doesn't spend a lot of money on a goalie doesn't mean that the Sabres would be more successful if they did the same.

It's way too early to make Miller/Enroth comparisons.

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:28 pm 
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if people think miller is bad, wait till enroth gets more starts. dudes no miller.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:35 pm 
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fly as hale wrote:
If you really think about it, many of the greatest goalies in the NHL today have been criticized for being overrated at some point. Luongo, Lundqvist, Price, Fleury, even Brodeur. They have been considered busts or simply overrated at some point. I guess it just comes with the position. Goaltending can be a thankless job sometimes.

I think Corey Griswold (he used to write for WGR 550), had some valid points on Twitter earlier that I totally agree with regarding Miller's stats:

Miller's strength has always been his clutch. He was rarely a statistically dominant goalie. Thats why last year was such an outlier.

He stood on his head to get them to the conference finals against the Senators.

You shouldn't base how much a player should make (especially a goaltender) on stats alone.


Idk if that's in response to me or to everyone, but I'll just say I'm not the one going on and on about where he ranks in GAA and SV pct. In fact I pointed out that he's among the top goaltenders in his pay class statistically when you combine the previous three seasons (as of 1-2-11).

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As far as Miller being clutch, I just don't know about that. 22-18 in playoff games, 4-3 in playoff series. He was great the first time against Ottawa and alright against NYR, Phi and NYI I think you can probably credit the team more than him.

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:39 pm 
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k

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:43 pm 
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no goalie has ever struggled before in his 73237 straight game.

get off it.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:45 pm 
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ironyisadeadscene wrote:
no goalie has ever struggled before in his 73237 straight game.

get off it.

In NHL 10, my goalie played all 82 games and won the Vezina, and won the cup, so it's not true.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.
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fly as hale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:45 pm 
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Well Alex I know you don't think much of the goaltending position, so I can understand why you feel that way. I don't mean that to sound condescending, people just view the game in different perspectives. Goaltending has and always will be my favorite position in hockey, so we view things differently.

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:48 pm 
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goaltending is the most important position in sports. people who devalue the position get my devalued respect when posting their opinions on the game.

also, miller apparently had a meltdown post game.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Honestly, I find the goaltending position to be extremely important.

I mean you need a somewhat competent goalie in the crease. Without it, you simply won't win. I mean on the hockey teams I play for. The one team has a really good goalie we can rely on a good amount and actually pressure the other teams. The other team, well he sucks balls, and the team blows basically, but there is no hope with him in net really.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.
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fly as hale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:49 pm 
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ironyisadeadscene wrote:
also, miller apparently had a meltdown post game.

Where did you hear that? :( :(

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:50 pm 
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fly as hale wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
also, miller apparently had a meltdown post game.

Where did you hear that? :( :(


read it at another board. im trying to find more info.

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:53 pm 
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theres an audio clip on WGR that i assume includes said meltdown. but i dont listen to post game interviews.

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daz28
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:55 pm 
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I'm not sure I can subscribe to any clutch theories, it just reeks of an excuse. If two goalies after 60 games have the same GAA, same wins, have faced the same # of shots, and one has a .923, and the other has a .901, it just sounds weak trying to say that one guy is better, because he was making more 'clutch' saves than the other. His win/loss(or some other stat) would indicate his true clutch power. I could be wrong, but it just sounds weak.
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fly as hale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:58 pm 
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ironyisadeadscene wrote:
theres an audio clip on WGR that i assume includes said meltdown. but i dont listen to post game interviews.

I listend to it, there is no meltdown. It's like a minute long.

daz28 wrote:
I'm not sure I can subscribe to any clutch theories, it just reeks of an excuse. If two goalies after 60 games have the same GAA, same wins, have faced the same # of shots, and one has a .923, and the other has a .901, it just sounds weak trying to say that one guy is better, because he was making more 'clutch' saves than the other. His win/loss(or some other stat) would indicate his true clutch power. I could be wrong, but it just sounds weak.

Oh, well I think someone basing a goalie on stats alone is a weak argument.

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daz28
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:59 pm 
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fly as hale wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
theres an audio clip on WGR that i assume includes said meltdown. but i dont listen to post game interviews.

I listend to it, there is no meltdown. It's like a minute long.

daz28 wrote:
I'm not sure I can subscribe to any clutch theories, it just reeks of an excuse. If two goalies after 60 games have the same GAA, same wins, have faced the same # of shots, and one has a .923, and the other has a .901, it just sounds weak trying to say that one guy is better, because he was making more 'clutch' saves than the other. His win/loss(or some other stat) would indicate his true clutch power. I could be wrong, but it just sounds weak.

Oh, well I think someone basing a goalie on stats alone is a weak argument.

Agreed, but no weaker than basing it on clutch alone.
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