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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:39 pm 
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sabresrocker56 wrote:
Here's an example I thought of for the crowd who says "he didn't mean to hurt him, shit happens."
The play Chara made was illegal, it was interference. The injury is a result of an illegal action.
Let's say I'm in a hurry to get to work. I'm coming up to a red light and decide to run it to get to work faster. As I'm driving under said red light, I broadside someone who has the right of way because of their green light. Said accident victim sustains a grade 3 concussion and a fractured vertebrae. Certainly I didn't mean to injure anyone, but I did. Am I not responsible for their injuries?

This is all hypothetical, but think about it. An illegal action the perpetrator knows is illegal results in a critical injury. Sounds like a punishable offense to me.


So had Pacioretty, instead of poking the puck away, kept the puck along the boards, and the same thing happened, we wouldn't be having this discussion? No, we'd still be having this argument. People are only worried about the hit because it caused an injury. The hit isn't even that bad, the result is what is giving this a terrible reputation.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:42 pm 
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http://wgr550.com/SIMON--Conflicting-em ... ?pid=40461
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Let me just say right off the top, I would not have suspended Zdeno Chara if it was my call. Let me also say that watching the close up, slow motion video of Chara’s hit on Montreal’s Max Pacioretty made me cringe and made me feel dirty for saying I would not suspend him. I’ll also add that I was susprised the NHL didn’t suspend Chara for 1 or 2 games because of the image a non suspension would present to sports fans across the country. Now, let me explain all of this.
If I’m going to suspend Chara, I need to know intent. I need to know that he knew exactly what he was doing, that he took Pacioretty out knowing full well the stanchion was there and there was no place Pacioretty could go except right into the partition. I think Chara was well aware of what was coming in terms of that partition but I can’t prove it with 100 percent certainty. Chara did not break rule 48 because he did not intentionally target the head of the opposing player.
As to the league’s decision, a number of callers to our morning show this week brought up a good point. Even if there wasn’t intent, Chara must still be held accountable for his actions. While taking an interference penalty, one deemed serious enough to be for 5 minutes and result in a game misconduct for the behemoth of a defenseman, Chara’s play led to Pacioretty’s serious injury and that alone should be worthy of a suspension. Like I said, it’s a good point and even more so at a time when the league says it is trying to protect players from head injuries as much as possible without taking hitting out of the game. That is why I’m surprised they didn’t throw a short suspension at Chara.
That, and the video. I’ve watched it back 4 or 5 times and as I said earlier, I cringe when I see Pacioretty’s head slam into the stanchion. Then you see him laying face down on the ice. You see the look on the faces of the fans who are wondering if Pacioretty is alive or not and then there’s the stretcher and the neck brace. It does make you think that someday there will be a fatality on the ice. Which is why I was expecting the league to do something so they can avoid all of the “this is why I don’t watch your game” comments.
It’s odd. Usually I think the NHL misses the boat when it comes to suspending guys for on ice actions, letting some hits go with no disciplinary action. When they do suspend someone, I usually think they were too lenient with the Islanders Trevor Gillies most recent suspension being the latest example but I would not have suspended Chara this time around. That play and the David Steckel hit on Sidney Crosby at the Winter Classic, among others, should make for a great debate when the Board of Governors convenes next week, one year after they put a rule on the books, cracking down on hits to the head.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Here's an interesting quote from an NHL player. Those of you who think that players are just mindless reactionary robots who can't be held responsible for their own actions might find this shocking.


Nobody is saying that players are mindless robots, but when something is left completely out of your control (again, a random partition that happens no where else on the ice, and has never caused anything this serious before) then what can be done about it? Chara's not letting up because based on prior experience, he wouldn't expect something that serious to happen, and neither could I. If someone told me right now that they could have seen that coming, then I'll spit in that person's face because I highly doubt that.



Sorry man, but it sounds to me like you're blaming an inanimate object and absolving the players of all responsibility to protect each other. This was another chance for the NHL to change the mindset of NHL players, to force them to respect each others well being even if only a little bit more. Rest assured they will have countless more chances to set an example and they will fail again, and again.

Read that article, read what Rupp said. Instilling the concern of discipline does make a difference. It puts fear into the minds of dirty players like Gilles, Cooke, and Avery and it raises the level of respect among everybody else.

Call me selfish but I wanted to see LaFontaine play every single game and have a long and productive career. And if I have to choose between watching Savard play every game or listen Matt Cooke complain about what a pussified league it is because he got suspended...well I'll take watching Savard and personally I think Savard is a douche. Dirty head hunting hits go on for decades and then finally they come up with something, maybe in another 20 years there will be a turnbuckle rule put in place too. How many more will suffer until they figure it out? Who knows, I guess it depends on the name on the back of the victims jersey and the dollar figure attached to that name.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Old Turnbuckle:

|
|
|
|
|
|__________________


The way it should be redesigned:

|
|
|
\
..\
...\
.....\
......\
........\
..........\__________________


Except make the angle sharper, so when a head runs into it, it won't come to a dead stop. Also, use some of that extra space where the ....'s are as extra padding.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:20 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Here's an interesting quote from an NHL player. Those of you who think that players are just mindless reactionary robots who can't be held responsible for their own actions might find this shocking.


Nobody is saying that players are mindless robots, but when something is left completely out of your control (again, a random partition that happens no where else on the ice, and has never caused anything this serious before) then what can be done about it? Chara's not letting up because based on prior experience, he wouldn't expect something that serious to happen, and neither could I. If someone told me right now that they could have seen that coming, then I'll spit in that person's face because I highly doubt that.



Sorry man, but it sounds to me like you're blaming an inanimate object and absolving the players of all responsibility to protect each other. This was another chance for the NHL to change the mindset of NHL players, to force them to respect each others well being even if only a little bit more. Rest assured they will have countless more chances to set an example and they will fail again, and again.

Read that article, read what Rupp said. Instilling the concern of discipline does make a difference. It puts fear into the minds of dirty players like Gilles, Cooke, and Avery and it raises the level of respect among everybody else.

Call me selfish but I wanted to see LaFontaine play every single game and have a long and productive career. And if I have to choose between watching Savard play every game or listen Matt Cooke complain about what a pussified league it is because he got suspended...well I'll take watching Savard and personally I think Savard is a douche. Dirty head hunting hits go on for decades and then finally they come up with something, maybe in another 20 years there will be a turnbuckle rule put in place too. How many more will suffer until they figure it out? Who knows, I guess it depends on the name on the back of the victims jersey and the dollar figure attached to that name.


I'm sorry, but no. Fuck this. I'm sick of the NHL and the NFL "instilling fear" into it's players for being physical. Yeah, Cooke, Avery, and the bunch are all sorry assholes who deserve what they get, but Chara? No. I'm sorry. There's a line between being physical and being dirty. Chara's hit wasn't even close to the dirty line. He tried to throw him over the boards, he just threw him at the wrong spot. It's that simple.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Here's an interesting quote from an NHL player. Those of you who think that players are just mindless reactionary robots who can't be held responsible for their own actions might find this shocking.


Nobody is saying that players are mindless robots, but when something is left completely out of your control (again, a random partition that happens no where else on the ice, and has never caused anything this serious before) then what can be done about it? Chara's not letting up because based on prior experience, he wouldn't expect something that serious to happen, and neither could I. If someone told me right now that they could have seen that coming, then I'll spit in that person's face because I highly doubt that.



Sorry man, but it sounds to me like you're blaming an inanimate object and absolving the players of all responsibility to protect each other. This was another chance for the NHL to change the mindset of NHL players, to force them to respect each others well being even if only a little bit more. Rest assured they will have countless more chances to set an example and they will fail again, and again.

Read that article, read what Rupp said. Instilling the concern of discipline does make a difference. It puts fear into the minds of dirty players like Gilles, Cooke, and Avery and it raises the level of respect among everybody else.

Call me selfish but I wanted to see LaFontaine play every single game and have a long and productive career. And if I have to choose between watching Savard play every game or listen Matt Cooke complain about what a pussified league it is because he got suspended...well I'll take watching Savard and personally I think Savard is a douche. Dirty head hunting hits go on for decades and then finally they come up with something, maybe in another 20 years there will be a turnbuckle rule put in place too. How many more will suffer until they figure it out? Who knows, I guess it depends on the name on the back of the victims jersey and the dollar figure attached to that name.


I'm sorry, but no. Fuck this. I'm sick of the NHL and the NFL "instilling fear" into it's players for being physical. Yeah, Cooke, Avery, and the bunch are all sorry assholes who deserve what they get, but Chara? No. I'm sorry. There's a line between being physical and being dirty. Chara's hit wasn't even close to the dirty line. He tried to throw him over the boards, he just threw him at the wrong spot. It's that simple.


Supposing Chara is a victim of circumstance, can you at least see what kind of message this sends to the rest of the league? Nobody is ever going to let up in those situations because there is simply no fear of discipline. The lack of respect is strengthened. Pacioretty's neck is only worth $300 dollars to the NHL, so how does that in any way deter players from WANTING to catch a player in that same situation?

The league doesn't get it, they think machoism sells but where has that gotten them? Franchises uprooting all the time, empty seats everywhere you look. People want to see TALENT AND SKILL. That's what hockey is really about, that's what sells. How can you sell a product that is absent for half a season or more every year? The NHL needs to take extreme measures to protect their players, I think it's at least worth trying because they old way continues to be an epic fail. What does anybody have to lose other than Milbury calling the NHL gay because his masculinity feels threatened.

And even if I thought Chara was innocent, which I don't, I would make a martyr out of him to send a message.

Lord help me I can't believe I'm saying this but Godell might be right.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:51 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Here's an interesting quote from an NHL player. Those of you who think that players are just mindless reactionary robots who can't be held responsible for their own actions might find this shocking.


Nobody is saying that players are mindless robots, but when something is left completely out of your control (again, a random partition that happens no where else on the ice, and has never caused anything this serious before) then what can be done about it? Chara's not letting up because based on prior experience, he wouldn't expect something that serious to happen, and neither could I. If someone told me right now that they could have seen that coming, then I'll spit in that person's face because I highly doubt that.



Sorry man, but it sounds to me like you're blaming an inanimate object and absolving the players of all responsibility to protect each other. This was another chance for the NHL to change the mindset of NHL players, to force them to respect each others well being even if only a little bit more. Rest assured they will have countless more chances to set an example and they will fail again, and again.

Read that article, read what Rupp said. Instilling the concern of discipline does make a difference. It puts fear into the minds of dirty players like Gilles, Cooke, and Avery and it raises the level of respect among everybody else.

Call me selfish but I wanted to see LaFontaine play every single game and have a long and productive career. And if I have to choose between watching Savard play every game or listen Matt Cooke complain about what a pussified league it is because he got suspended...well I'll take watching Savard and personally I think Savard is a douche. Dirty head hunting hits go on for decades and then finally they come up with something, maybe in another 20 years there will be a turnbuckle rule put in place too. How many more will suffer until they figure it out? Who knows, I guess it depends on the name on the back of the victims jersey and the dollar figure attached to that name.


I'm sorry, but no. Fuck this. I'm sick of the NHL and the NFL "instilling fear" into it's players for being physical. Yeah, Cooke, Avery, and the bunch are all sorry assholes who deserve what they get, but Chara? No. I'm sorry. There's a line between being physical and being dirty. Chara's hit wasn't even close to the dirty line. He tried to throw him over the boards, he just threw him at the wrong spot. It's that simple.


Supposing Chara is a victim of circumstance, can you at least see what kind of message this sends to the rest of the league? Nobody is ever going to let up in those situations because there is simply no fear of discipline. The lack of respect is strengthened. Pacioretty's neck is only worth $300 dollars to the NHL, so how does that in any way deter players from WANTING to catch a player in that same situation?

The league doesn't get it, they think machoism sells but where has that gotten them? Franchises uprooting all the time, empty seats everywhere you look. People want to see TALENT AND SKILL. That's what hockey is really about, that's what sells. How can you sell a product that is absent for half a season or more every year? The NHL needs to take extreme measures to protect their players, I think it's at least worth trying because they old way continues to be an epic fail. What does anybody have to lose other than Milbury calling the NHL gay because his masculinity feels threatened.

And even if I thought Chara was innocent, which I don't, I would make a martyr out of him to send a message.

Lord help me I can't believe I'm saying this but Godell might be right.


Ok, but when you are making a routine hockey play that always happens along the boards (oh gosh! checking!), you're not expecting a small partition to be right there when you're hitting a guy. A player is going to do the same thing at one end of the ice that he is at the other end of the ice. It is what it is. I could see if this were a check from behind, or if you can clearly see that Chara was trying to hurt the guy, but this is nothing more than a routine play gone horribly wrong. That's it, nothing else. He was given a major penalty because of the nature of what happened, not because of anything else. The league saw it that way, and I saw it that way. Case closed, problem solved.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
Ok, but when you are making a routine hockey play that always happens along the boards (oh gosh! checking!), you're not expecting a small partition to be right there when you're hitting a guy. A player is going to do the same thing at one end of the ice that he is at the other end of the ice. It is what it is. I could see if this were a check from behind, or if you can clearly see that Chara was trying to hurt the guy, but this is nothing more than a routine play gone horribly wrong. That's it, nothing else. He was given a major penalty because of the nature of what happened, not because of anything else. The league saw it that way, and I saw it that way. Case closed, problem solved.



It's not routine, the partition is there, either Chara chose to accept that danger to Pacioretty or he didn't. If you suspend a guy, and put a rule in place, you grab everyone's attention and you force these men to respect each other when the partition is around, or is it asking too much of grown men to be aware of their surroundings?

Will you still get to see guys get fucked up by the patrician with a rule in place? Don't worry, that probably would have happened to Pacioretty without Chara's assistance. Will it help to prevent serious injuries in the future? Yes. Because like Mike Rupp said, there's a fraction of a second when you question the safety of the situation for your opponent. Whether that mindset is brought upon by fear or respect I don't care.

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PatGreen
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:51 pm 
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dude, whether the partition is there or not, squeezing a chaser out along the boards is as old as the trap defense. it's a routine play gone wrong.

fix the partition, the hit was legal.


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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:05 pm 
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We've all seen these before...it's one of the nastiest things that can happen, but it's an inherent risk in the game.

Goal posts used to not break away and fucked some people up too...I agree, fix the boards, it wasn't dirty.

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
We've all seen these before...it's one of the nastiest things that can happen, but it's an inherent risk in the game.

Goal posts used to not break away and fucked some people up too...I agree, fix the boards, it wasn't dirty.


i remember a story about the old pegs that used to hold the nets in place, they would stick up several inches. anyways, once a player fell on one and it went up his butt (i laughed really hard reading this) and he bled ALOT.

ill see if i can find that story. its pretty gross, but kinda funny.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:20 pm 
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PatGreen wrote:
dude, whether the partition is there or not, squeezing a chaser out along the boards is as old as the trap defense. it's a routine play gone wrong.

fix the partition, the hit was legal.


Why would he squeeze him into the turnbuckle?

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PatGreen
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:22 pm 
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lol


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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:24 pm 
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PatGreen wrote:
lol


i cant find the story anywhere! i even remember seeing a video of it. pretty gross, but funny stuff.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Quote:
NHLPA STATEMENT FROM DON FEHR
“Player safety has always been, and continues to be, a great concern to the Players’ Association. In that regard, issues involving the boards and glass in NHL arenas have been a longstanding focus for the players. The serious nature of the injury suffered by Max Pacioretty in Montreal this week reinforces the importance of maximizing the safety in this area and highlights the need to look further into the matter. We will be inspecting the rink in Montreal, and elsewhere, to make sure the appropriate padding is in place. We will continue to gather feedback from the membership, to ensure the safest possible work environment for our players.”

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:43 pm 
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There you go, the NHL is on it. Nothing to worry about.

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Los9090
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:21 pm 
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After reading about the history Pacioretti and Boston have, players knowing where that turnbuckle is, and Chara's borderline dirty play, I change my opinion that Chara should've at LEAST gotten a 5 game ban.

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Markus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:13 pm 
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Here's the thing that gets me riled up. Gary Bettman stated that one of the reasons that he did not suspend Chara is because he has never had a suspension before...and they seem to be doing this with a lot of players.

First off, he has been suspended, when he was with the Senators.

But mostly, they said the same GODDAMN THING last year when we faced them in the playoffs. BY RULE, Chara should have been suspended for atleast 1 game last season, and he wasn't because of his "suspension history"

If you don't suspend any players ever, chances are, they won't have a history.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:24 am 
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Fuck the NHL. Fuck The Bruins. Fuck Chara. Boyes and Gerbe teabagged their pathetic, worthless, asshole, cheap shot, baby candy ass team. Big ass titties!

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gr8daygo
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:55 pm 
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Joe Thornton Criticizes NHL for Not Suspending Zdeno Chara, Says League Rules in Bruins Favor
by Elizabeth Cohen on Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:22AM

Joe Thornton is not unfamiliar with controversy in Boston, and he decided to whip up some more during an interview on Thursday while discussing his former team.
When asked about the recent debate over Zdeno Chara's hit on Montreal's Max Pacioretty, Thornton said he believes that Boston gets away with more favorable rulings from the league, the Globe and Mail reports.
"It's just something with Boston," Thornton said. "It just seems like they have a horseshoe. We've seen the [Milan] Lucic cross-check to the head [of Dominic Moore] earlier, and there's no disciplinary thing."
Thorton went on to question the NHL's process of disciplining players for certain hits on the ice, and said Boston always seems to have an edge when it comes to avoiding further penalty from the league.
"It's just something about Boston and the disciplinary [process] is on their side," Thornton added. "I'm not sure why that is. I'm not assuming that Colin's [Campbell] kid is on the team and that's why, but it's really bizarre."
Thornton may have a point, or he may just be spouting sour grapes over his two-game suspension earlier in the season for his blindside hit on St. Louis winger David Perron -- who has been sitting out indefinitely with a concussion since the incident.



http://network.yardbarker.com/nhl/artic ... or/4363180

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