i think thats a fair argument. valid. i do hold the holy save percentage as the truest form of evaluating a goaltenders success. i do vary from it, on occasion. with miller, i watch him enough to know his save percentage is lowered by bad defense around him at inopportune times. but his skill, especially in his feet and technique really is in the top 5.

with lundqvist, i see a goalie who over commits and takes himself out of the play, very frequently, and plays way too deep in the crease. so if you pick your spot, whammy, its in. the best i can compare it to is a musician, like a guitarist who plays super fast, but some people say, yeah, hes fast, but holy shit its sloppy. ya know? hes very very sloppy. and not in a tim thomas, hasek way. as it, hes just just so tense and rigid, and sloppy. not by design (IMO)

i cant argue with those stats, its impossible. its like me saying "bullshit the sky is blue."

however, i do make the argument that i feel his stats are inflated due to the rangers defense, which forces the puck to the outside. hence why ive always felt hes under the elite tier, even if he does fall under my "elite" catagory. those numbers actually shocked me, because it seems every other game, hes getting lit up.

edit: i know your not trying to pick a fight. i agree completely it appears hypocritical as shit. ill even say it, it very very well be because im biased, because i hate the rangers.

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Good points Irony. I've seen Lundqvist get torched before. And the Rangers are all about defense first. Have been ever since "the king" was their starting goaltender.

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Wheelhouse

given your recent attitude, i cant tell if your serious, or if that sarcasm is running through you veins again.

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lol no sarcasm there. I agree with what you're saying in terms of how Lundqvist has gotten a lot of help.

Still, I find six 30 win seasons in a row to be very impressive.

I think it's tough to define an "elite" class of goaltenders anymore anyways. From one season to the next, any of the goaltenders in the top 20 could rebound and make it into the top 3.

I consider an Elite goaltender to be one who plays a lot of games, and has put up solid, similar numbers over the course of his career.

I'm sure there are a lot of teams that wouldn't mind having Henrik as their starting goaltender right now because like Miller, he's reliable.

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Wheelhouse

it is for sure.

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Incorrect. Ryan Miller tied him only a few nights later.

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Girgensons for captain. Team Keep Nick DesLauriers forever.

@TJLuckman550

Incorrect.

Both players have 6 30 win seasons.

Miller took 8 seasons to do it. Lundqvist took 6.

Therefore, Lundqvist remains the only goalie that has gone 6 for 6 in this category.

Sometimes I feel like people just need to open their eyes and watch the game instead of just going back and relying heavily on stats. They can be good indicators and can help lead you in the right direction, but people need to stop clinging on them so much.

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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hockey Night in Buffalo

Ah, I see, so you're counting his call-ups from previous seasons.

That's not fair to Miller, but technicalities...

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Girgensons for captain. Team Keep Nick DesLauriers forever.

@TJLuckman550

I don't think it matters all that much. Lundy doing it in his first season is somewhat statistically interesting, but it doesn't take away from either goaltender's accomplishment.

it completely depends. ive only watched lundqvist a handful of times, like 25 or something, so i feel ive watched him enough to form my opinion, which did actually go against my stat rule... however, if you dont see someone alot, stats can tell you a great deal.

when i rave about certain goaltenders, its almost never stat based, but based on what i see when i watch them.

the gap between goaltenders is also alot smaller then it was in the late 90s. if you had a starter over a .900 save percentage, you were considered fine. but then you also had guys finishing in the .930 range.. now it seems every starter is in that .910-.920 range, with few exceptions.

in the late 90s, youd have a guy like guy hebert posting a .902 save percentage, and he was considered a very solid starter. its alot more difficult now.

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They weigh pretty heavily in internet discussions, but I'm like you, I would rather be watching the players play live and seeing for myself.

Numbers aside the only criticism I have of Ryan Miller's play are his angles. Usually, he's spot on and brilliant about positioning, taking away everything. But I've started noticing over the past 2 or 3 weeks that he is sometimes too deep in the net or overly pursuing the puck carrier from the post. I'll be the first to admit that I am not an expert on goal tending, but to me it's a bad idea to leave the post as frequently as he does. It seems to make much more sense to simply get back on your skates and hug the post from that angle. Am I correct?

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"I love that you know how to do that." Cheryl/Carol/Crystal

"And I love that I have an erection that doesn't involve homeless people." Kreiger

Is a 30 win season all that impressive for a guy that racks up 60-70 starts?

I don't consider Lundqvist to be elite just by watching him. I know his stats are good, I always try to nab him in fantasy, but with a lack of clutch wins in his career I have a hard time putting in the same category as Brodeur, Miller, Luongo, Kipper, etc.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

Lundqvuist makes some dirty saves dude. I watch a lot of their games with my brother in law.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

he indeed does. but because he has to by overcommitment and staying so deep. hes often times out of position, but he does in fact make some saves.

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His positioning is fine. Yes, he stays back in his crease, but some nice shots that would go in even when you're in position are nothing for Lundqvuist.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

completely disagree.

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If you're going to sit back in your crease that far, you have to predominately be a stand up goaltender.

While Lundqvist does have a hybrid, he spends some time on the ice. Not good for a goaltender who sits that far back.

In my opinion, Miller isn't challenging or staying square to the shot nearly as well as he did last year. That's why he's having issues.

He fixes that, he's back to his Vezina form.

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Wheelhouse

is it poor memory on my part to say that henrik is always down and is a big time butterfly goalie?

i don't remember him being predominately stand up or any sort of hybrid at all. like to the point where he almost never lets in shots on the ice.

No, I'm right there with ya Pat. Lundqvist goes down super fast.

And I didn't post his record of 6 straight 30+ win seasons to imply he's elite, I just like random statbits like that

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mechaphil