I had to go dig the numbers up, but Hartford had agreed to put up a $150M building. They also offered to let the Whalers take all parking revenue from the building, EVEN NON WHALERS EVENTS. Considering that they would have been moving UConn home games there, plus some of the Wolfpack games, plus everything else that would have been in there, that was a huge concession.

Karmanos then wanted:

- $45M to cover the Whalers' losses while the new building was built
- Refused to sign a lease longer than 10 years
- Wanted to use the new building rent-free
- No ticket surcharge or tax to help recoup the building cost

Karmanos was a greedy fuck who did everything he can to rip that team out of there.

An instant success, no. After 13 years and a championship, yes, you should expect more.

Not. Enough. People. Care. They're not the worst offender, but they're pretty damn bad.

Well we will blame him then.

Still doesn't change the fact I can see hockey 30 minutes from my house and I'm the only one who matters.

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Raleigh may have at eam, but it will never be a hockey market. the fanbase may grow, but itll always be a bottom of the pack market/fanbase. always.

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A big reason is their 5 playoff appearances in 13 years, 3 have been deep runs, two to the SCF and one to the ECF. But two appearances since the lockout in 6 years is terrible management of the team here.

As a Fan you want more, and to me that's what it seems. The more playoff spots you secure, the bigger your fanbase will be, and that's huge.

The Sabres have made the playoffs lie 30 times in their 40 years, you get that type of playoff making success, you get plenty of fans, yes they can start out as bandwagon fans, then grow to real fans.

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You should see the rec leagues then and see how many people play hockey, that is what defines an area being a hockey market to me.

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buffalo had a highly successful and beloved AHL team in the city long before the NHL granted expansion to the city. buffalo has a rich hockey tradition, and that was before the NHL got there.

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there are hockey leagues and a large amount of people playing hockey in savannah, georgia, too. doesnt mean they have a market for an NHL team.

the hurricanes are a sustained franchise that is barely hanging on above other struggling teams like the yotes and the thrashers. the fact that the arena isnt full in a huge game shows alot of where the team stands. toss in the ugly way north carolina obtained the team, its not a pretty picture.

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Do you get my point though?

This was a HUGE game. HUGE. And it still was treated as an afterthought by the market in general.

I'm not going to shit on Raleigh because of how they got the team...that wasn't their fault (even though it's fun to pick at them about it). At this point though, as has been said, after 13 years and a Stanley Cup, they should have a well established fan base by now. The 88% is really not that impressive when you consider the average ticket price has been around 26-28th, and dead last for a season or two. Buffalo has ticket prices averaging around 22-24th, but sell at 99%. The Sabres could raise prices and still sell at the same rate. If Carolina raised prices fans would walk. They have potential, but failing to sell out that game shows it's not where it should be.

Carolina has sold the smallest percentage of available seats of any team in the NHL since 1990.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

Are you still talking about this? No offense but this thread proves what every canes fan thinks of sabre fans. Canes fans only obsess about hating sabre fans for 2 (not 4) games a season but never give them another thought the rest of the year. Your still harping on whether or not games are sold to your liking, whether or not we're true fans, even though the adult and youth hockey leagues are thriving thats not enough to prove we 're a hockey market to you, we should be punished because Karmanos ripped the team from Hartford, and we're a sustained franchise right there with Atlanta and Phoenix who are likely being relocated even though our ownership situation isnt unstable and there's never been talk about moving.

News flash----your in the playoffs and instead of obsessing about the canes and their hated fanbase, quit whining and go cheer your team on! Sabres made it in by the skin of their teeth and played great hockey in the final stretch, I dont get why obsessing about the canes and their fans who arent even in it anymore deserves more attention than your own team?

I talk about a lot of teams in the league a lot of the time. I'm not just a fan of the Sabres, I'm a fan of the sport.

Honestly, I was spurred to comment by some cheap shot comments made about my city by some Canes fans on Twitter. That stuff drives me crazy. Good natured banter is one thing, but personal shots about where I live? That gets me going,

I just find it shocking that in a game of that magnitude, it didn't sell out. I understand on a Tuesday night in December against Florida that there might not be that many seats sold. That happens.

But, game #82, playoff berth on the line, yet they still can't fill the building? I think that's a legitimate concern. Tickets there are cheap. Lower ticket prices = less revenues = questionable long term viability of the team. Carolina isn't the only place I think the NHL should be out of.

Understand something. I'm NOT hating on the fan base. I respect those of you down there that love the game and support your team. I just don't think there is, or will ever be, enough of you to make hockey a success.

And your fans bash Buffalo whenever something goes wrong for the canes whether or not the Sabres are actually involved. Getting shelled by Tampa? Let's make fun of Buffalo! That's basically what Saturday's HF Boards thread turned into so don't try and act like Buffalo fans are proving anything any worse than what Canes fans prove when they continually bash our city.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

Its cool, everyone can think whatever they want but I thinks its strange and weird that compplaints against the canes fans is that their whining, thin skinned and obsess over the sabre fans but this tells quite a different story. If you read the canes boards they're talking about the who to resign, should the coach stay, what went wrong for the team, will skinner win the calder and a bunch of exit interview crap. no one is obsessing about the sabre fans or even the last game they'd played against the sabres.

Time to move on and prove them all wrong. Is it really worth the energy?

So all this obsessing is really about retaliating against a bunch of self indulgent college boys on HF? They're so full of their own shit they dont even read what eachother writes before discrediting and bashing the next guy just to prove their right. Is that really worth retaliating against?

- Fact, teeth have no skin.
- Fact, I'm with Tom in that if you have a team, you support it no matter what. ESPECIALLY when it is a race to make it into the final 8 in the conference or not. Failure to show up to support the team in given situations, to me, only says you are a bandwagon fan and need to take a course on what being a fan is all about.

Not saying all fans should turn in their fan cards at all and I give major props to those who attend every single game (or as many as their lives outside of hockey can allow). But when you have a team that has the opportunity to make it, make a run or dominate the playoffs, when it is as close as it was, you are there supporting your team win or lose. Which was not the case here.

Let’s look at this in another light for a sec…

Let’s say that Bettman claims that since the attendance numbers have been so low in the RBC center that they are considering moving the team. I think there would be a big uproar from the masses in the Carolinas because they would be at risk of losing the privilege of having an NHL team, not that they are losing their beloved former Stanley Cup Champions. (GASP!)

Now, I’ve never been to the RBC center, and don’t plan on frequenting the place any time soon. But my money says there are more casual fans as opposed to diehard fans found in more traditional markets that don’t consider a sport driving around in a circle/oval 500 times.

Just my opinion.

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If it's a tight squeeze, spit on it! - NyI

He's a middling AHL player who had the good fortune of a drunk arbitrator. - The Squanto re: Tim Kennedy

super dave is the man. this thread is pathetic.

I'll give you this one
Again, why is up you to decide who is and isnt a fan and a better question is why do you even care?

Hasnt happened so why obsess about a scenario that doesnt exist unless youre so desperate to prove that we suck as fans and you cant stand seeing us exist.

Umm you've never been there so I assume you base all your opinions on what other report on message boards and BTW, if the insults that canes fans throw out about Buffalo are what fuel the fire of hate for you, why throw out the whole car racing insult? Isnt that a similar insult directed at NC since we all just love NASCAR, aint it right y'all?

The "obsessing" comes from those that have an interest in several aspects of hockey, be they media, journalism, management, scouting, attendance figures, tv ratings, etc. It's not so much obsession as it is merely having a broad interest in hockey. Sometimes that washes over into discussing the poor attendance of many southern and a few northern markets. That isn't so much of an insult as it is fact.

What do you expect here? This is a Sabres board.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual