I'm fine with expecting better from Vanek. I commented on the very play PSP posted when it happened. What I'm not okay with is expecting better from ONLY Vanek. There was plenty of bad in that series, and Vanek is very low on that list.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

+/- evens out to what you are usually at, in my opinion. Yes Butler may have had a hand in it, but on the same token, there are goals that are scored on the ice which Vanek may have nothing to do with.

So yes there is a little room for error, but it usually is an somewhat accurate depiction. In his best +/- year, people praised him and that line for everything that they were doing. And it was true. The other team simply couldn't get the puck off of their sticks, and we spent almost all of our time in the offensive zone. Job well done.

For me, sometimes he looks like he is the reincarnation of Yashin/Satan, and other times he looks like he could lead us deep into the playoffs.

This is the PLAYOFFS we are talking about. He just doesn't look like a playoff player to me. Scoring goals on the powerplay is nice, but should we realistically sit him until we get on the pp? Even strength has not been his friend. Yes, even for Vanek, in the playoffs there is hitting, and blocking shots and getting shit done.

No one in this league is disqualified because they are a little bit better at scoring.

And no, I don't think me, or Adam or anyone else thinks it was just Vanek's fault. It wasn't.

If I were to blame it on one player, it might be Hellen Keller. I mean Stafford.

/jim mora

The Stanley Cup IS WON BY A TEAM. NOT BY ONE PLAYER.

I don't think he was trying to say one player should do it alone, but when you invest 7+ mil in a guy and apparently he is the "leader" of this team, you expect him to be a MONSTER on ALL ends of the ice.

As for everyone else, i'm sure all of us could critique every single player in the playoffs.

For instance: As good as Robby was in the playoffs, and as much praise as he got, he still at times looked like he was going in slow motion while everyone else was on fast forward.

Even Myers, who had a good (ish) playoffs, and was pushing Briere around the entire time, missed several easy assignments that led to Flyers goals.

I think the discussion is more about being worth your keep. Everyone always points to Detroit because they are somehow able to sign great players at much less than their market value.

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Wheelhouse

No, I dont. I could care less about what the salaries are unless it's a cap discussion. All I expect is that the player gives maximum effort, and does what they're supposed to.

For the vast majority of the time Vanek does that.

I see what you're saying, but this is still the playoffs. What excuse does Vanek get not to hit and block shots and play physical? Almost all of the other stars in the playoffs have had a major impact on their teams, outside of scoring.

And it's not just him, but this discussion was centered on him when I came in.

"Maximum effort" to me involves SACRIFICE. Not just standing in front of the net but doing the things you need to in order to get a win. Blocking shots, hitting, playing physical, stopping the other team from scoring, gaining momentum through a good play (which he did a few times through good backcheck) are all things that you need to do.

Salaries always matter in almost every sport. If we don't allocate it there, we allocate it somewhere else kind of thing. This isn't to say he or anyone else is going anywhere, because I know he's here to stay.

Any negative stat about Vanek seems to be portrayed by just the people on this forum as a fluke or fault of another player. It's like certain players are seen as demi-gods and cannot be touched.

My favorite players on the current roster are Miller and Gaustad. Miller, while he played ok, had some rough softies at bad spots during the series. Gaustad, while being an all around good player, looked like he just couldn't contribute and get the game going at times.

I remember hearing the same exact comments about good old Miroslav Satan. I certainly remember the "he's a scorer, doesn't need to backcheck or play defense" type comments.

Vanek is about 1000 times better than Satan ever was, but just remember how much ones perception of a player drastically changes over time.

Wow is this the best topic we have to waste the early off-season on?? For Vanek to be the main topic right now is pointless, especially when 1) he's signed long term and he isn't going anywhere anyway 2) his contract wasn't his doing and it has no bearing on his performance 3) he gives his best effort anyway 4) the far-and-away biggest reason for the playoff loss was our young and inexperienced d-corps getting pressured into mistakes and TOs, followed closely by injuries, and followed miles down the list by Vanek's defensive play.

There are actual player moves that are going to happen this summer, for real this time, with no possible budget constraints. The scouting dept is being revamped to true NHL standards and the arena is getting a top-notch overhaul in multiple ways. Yet people are still debating Vanek's defense.

I have something more fun to do. Who wants to play Russian roulette with my semi-auto? I'll start...

howd ya do?

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You want the macro level stuff. This is "end of season banter." Usually talking about the season that you know, just happened.

But yea I agree. I am surprised at how many people do not post during the off season. All the talk around my town as been centered on free agents.

I'll talk FAs all day long, but it should probably be in the other forum. I won't talk trades though, because nobody really knows who's on the block or not, and make believe trade ideas aren't my thing.

Here's a convenient and almost entirely up-to-date list of UFAs...

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2010/06 ... ee-agents/

In fact, I'll start a topic there right now if it helps to bury the Vanek talk.

I did some looking into FAs as well. I came to the conclusion that there aren't really any UFAs worth looking at.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I don't like a lot of the forwards that are out there but there are a lot of blueliners I would not mind at all for this team.

The only one I like is Erhoff.

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Because most of the off-season topics are :

- XBOX level trade ideas
- UFA/RFA ideas that don't make any sense
- Re-hashes of the same tired topics from the regular season

People get bored with that and would rather be doing something else.

Like masturbating.

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Hopefully this offseason gives us plenty to talk about.

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Wheelhouse

So Vanek plays wing right? That means he is responsible for the point, right? If he doesn't block many shots, wouldn't that mean the defensemen in front of him isn't shooting the puck because he's in the lane then thus forcing the pass?

I mean I expect a winger on the PK to block plenty of shots, and the Center since they are responsible for the center of the ice, but a winger who doesn't get much PK time, I only am going to expect him to be in his position to take that shooting lane away.

This is nothing against you, you just had the easiest quotable comment.

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lol yeah, maybe if he was in the lane

Basically this. He loves to hang around the top middle of the ice to he can get an outlet pass, and a lot of those shots get through, then someone bangs it in on the rebound. Hard to see on a broadcast sometimes but when you goto games and watch it's obvious.