If you guys want Zetterberg, go root for Detroit. Vanek is never going to be that player. Get over it.

I think that's the point. But you could say "get over it" about every single player/event that has happened in Sabres history. I think the point of a message board is to discuss it.

It's all friendly banter anyway, at least both sides are bringing up specific points, instead of "hess teh worst" type of troll stuff.

You may consider it friendly banter, to me it's just the same tired and false points that are brought up about Vanek again and again and again and again.

They're not false.

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Wheelhouse

Of course. Calling Vanek defensively inept and lazy is a completely accurate statement.

Please.

Could you please quote me on that?

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Wheelhouse

Did I at any point say YOU made that statement?

Seriously. Just stop replying to me. You're trying to pick a fight. I won't take the bait.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. We're having a discussion in this thread about Vanek.

I was unaware the statements you were referencing were not the ones that we've been discussing in this thread. That's all.

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Wheelhouse

the same zetterberg who turned the puck over in game 7 that lead to a 2-0 sharks lead?

after all, if we can cherry pick one bad play to create a hypothesis about a players ability...

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1 play makes Zetterberg a bad player? Wow, Vanek must SUCK then. He makes a lot of those.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

swing and a miss, BY.

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Fuck more like a strike out. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

no sweat.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

Of course, you could look at Stats too and take notice that in addition to the one defensive lapse I showed, there were also plenty of other mistakes that lead to his team worst -7 rating.

But blame it on his team mates. It's not like anyone else on this roster had to play with them either.

If it makes anyone feel better, I'm just as pissed at Gaustad for his glaring -6.

I'm not at ease that the two candidates we have for captain both had team worst showings during 5 on 5 play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Wheelhouse

you do realize there were several mistakes that other sabres made that led to those bad +/- numbers, right? there were times when butler looked like a monkey fucking a football.

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So because someone ends up being a minus means it's always their fault?

How many of those goals were a direct result of Vanek fucking it up, or another player fucking it up, or just a bad bounced that miraculously went in?

I would be willing to bet out of Vanek's -7, one, maybe not even one was a result of him fucking it up, or not trying, or not hustling back.

I hate the +/- stat, it's moreso a useless stat. Just because a played is a minus doesn't mean he doesn't score or prevent goals. He himself scored 5, and a powerplay goal is just as good as a 5-on-5 goal.

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nothin like skyline repeating the last five posts in a thread

I don't think it's useless, just often misleading in the short term.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I don't think Vanek is a bad player at all, I just don't think his heart is in the right places at certain times.

My question is JUST to the people that say he is a complete player. Most people that are Vanek fans understand he is a 7 million dollar goal scorer.

If a player is a "complete player", how does the lack of blocking shots, hitting, mixing it up, fighting, or being a top defensive forward constitute that?

I think Adam's point is he and others are bringing up stats to back it up, and even specific plays, and the response so far is "RAWRRR" and "It wasn't his fault, of course!"

Like I said someone could bring up a fault of any other player on this team and it's fine, but as soon as anyone brings up Vanek or Miller (I do not dislike either) it's a shitstorm.

Like I said about the plus minus gig, I think it's a very valuable stat, and IF Vanek was effective 5 on 5 at all during the playoffs, he would have had a much better rating. Just like the praise he got when he had an amazing plus minus. It was simply domination with the puck for that line. They scored too much to receive any sort of bad rating.

People need to have a much more open mind about a player instead of a pre-conceived notion of defending someone on a certain play or game no matter how badly they do.

Basically, why the hostility? You say the same thing at a bar during the game and you usually get a good conversation about a player or play, but if you see it on the anonymity of a message board, people will say whatever they want, even if it's not even close to what they'd say in real life, in just hopes of looking cool.