As some have said I don't know that it's the most pressing issue, but I don't think it's entirely out of place either. I do think that a basic introduction to sexuality at an early age is healthy and I don't think tying such lessons into a promotion of acceptance is a bad thing either. American culture in regards to sex, gender, and sexuality treats them as such taboo topics which only serves to promote ignorance and stifle the spread of information.

I know I personally had curiosities at a young age and while I think my parents did a decent job in satisfying them with the information they divulged at that age, it probably would have been that much more helpful to have a formal introduction to such topics in school. We may very well had something (i.e. basic anatomy which I think kids are most curious about), but I really don't remember.







That was necessary why?

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

Well Crosscheck made the point that this isn't a sex education discussion which implied to me that he considered sex education to be relegated to the subject of fornication. I posted that comment because I consider sex education to encompass sexuality as a whole (of which gender issues are a part), not just fornication. In which case by my definitions we would be discussing an aspect of sex education in this thread hence why I mentioned it in the first place.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

5 year olds are not sexual beings. Therefore they don't need to be kept abreast of sexual topics, gender issues or anything else of that nature.
I find it disturbing you think they on some level do, but I'll chalk that up to the fact that you probably don't spend a lot of time around grade school age kids.

I wouldn't argue against any of this stuff being discussed in Jr. High.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

A difference of opinions I suppose, but while you might find my thoughts to be "disturbing," they're not exactly out of the ordinary.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

+1

I was going to come here and post something damn near identical to this.

Kids are kids...let them have that. I'm not sure a 3rd or 4th grader is even capable of understanding what "gay" truly is, let alone a 5 year old. Hell I know plenty of adults who don't understand what gay is, and are afraid that a homosexual is just out to be attracted to straight men, and want to have sex with all of them.

Teaching this stuff at such a young age, to me, is just going to promote more confusion, and a greater lack of understanding. There is no way that you can explain relationships, gender, and sexuality to someone who can't even write a complex sentence.

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"She's like plan C after an 18 pack"

Squanto 7/27/2010

5 years olds need to worry about putting the correct color blocks in the correct shaped slots on the board, and remembering not to eat paste. Often.

They certainly don't need to learn about the mechanics of human reproduction before they can tie their own shoes, perform simple addition, or spell their own name using straight lines.

5 years old is fucking kindergarden, and you want teacher to start explaining about tab A / slot B? Ok. I don't want to pass judgement on your sexual preferences or activities here, but I think your personal preferences are really clouding your judgement. Start explaining what a vagina is my friend's children at age 5 and you'll end up in the hospital really damn fast. That is not the appropriate age for these topics.

Hey man, trying to explain anything about the vagina will make my brain explode...I still cant figure out how they work at age 25

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"She's like plan C after an 18 pack"

Squanto 7/27/2010

It don't get any easier as you get older. Just put something in there and move it around. Once in a while something good happens.

Go spend a couple hours with a 5 year old and get back to me on that.
I'm not trying to be a dick here, you're just wrong.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Personally, I don't see what's wrong with at least an introductory education. Yes, maybe 5 year olds aren't "sexual beings" but there are certainly natural curiosities there. "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours" mentality. While they may not be doing it for sexual reasons, one may wager that perhaps there's underlying, unconscious sexual feelings behind it. At the very least, they're delving into something sexually related that they may not fully understand. Plus, I feel like gender identity can be an issue for 5 year olds. There may be little boys who feel more comfortable wearing dresses and playing with dolls than playing with trucks with other boys their age. Furthermore, they maybe made fun of by their peers because of this. I don't really see how having simple discussions about such matters--and additionally promoting openness--can be all that much of an issue.

And, if your the parent, you can have those discussion with your children.
I've had candid discussions with my daughter about topics generally revolving around sexuality ie. "where do babies come from".
She knows my friends Lucas and Keith live together and call themselves boyfriends.
That's my job to explain.
That's not the job of her kindergarten teacher following a mandated school district curriculum.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Then why teach about sex at all in school? If it's the job of the parent, why not get rid of sexual education entirely? Because it's needed. The more educated someone is on a topic, the more likely they are to make informed decisions. Furthermore, teaching children from a young age that sex isn't something bad or terrible is probably a good thing. They'll grow up realizing that sex isn't some awkward, awful thing that should never be talked about ever. Discussing these kinds of things with other children around probably helps too. Yes, it's the job of the parent, but I don't think teaching it in schools is a bad idea either. Maybe, rather than being a mandated curriculum, see if all parents agree and if they do, allow the subject to be taught. That way, no one can really complain, since it is taught with parental permission. If a parent decides they don't want they're children being taught this, as they'd rather educate their child themselves, then they may do so.

My comments in this thread have been largely based on an appreciation for how the Dutch and the British approach sex ed., with instances from my own life interspersed as relevant.

My mom is an elementary school teacher who predominantly teaches Kindergarten and first grade and has had to deal with a kid masturbating in class, a (different) kid flashing, and a (third) kid running around touching other children inappropriately. It's instances like that (and a memory of first grade in which a kid used to rub his crotch when pleased) that lead me to believe that a laying a groundwork for sexuality is not such a bad thing. You can pin that on the parents as much as you want, but what do you do in those instances in which the parents have failed so completely and the kids don't have an understanding of why they're being punished or even an understanding of what they're doing?

Another thing I've been wondering is if this topic is so bad/inappropriate, why have only three parents pulled their kids from the class (granted a misleading number if we don't know how big the class is)?

An article about British/Dutch Sex Ed. from a few years ago.
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life ... 208865.ece

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I do like your idea of soliciting parental input on the material of sexual education classes. I think it would help to add some legitimacy while specifically addressing some of the concerns of the parents and needs of the children.

I remember we had health lessons regarding sex in 5th and 6th grade that required parental permission, but HS health was mandator.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I have no idea why you even brought up my "sexual preferences or activities." Doesn't seem a necessary thing to mention if you want to say that my general openness towards sexual behavior in general is leading me to trend that way in discussing this topic. I think the second part of the sentence achieved that just fine.

I don't have a problem with a discussion about those things. Certainly I've been fairly transparent in writing about my experiences, I just don't see what place they have in this thread. Bringing up my sexual preferences offhand in a thread about children produces a creepy (and untrue) implication about me even if that was not the intent. (And I don't believe it was.)

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I was enrolled in a multi-year sex-ed program outside of school and before mandatory sex-ed came around somewhere in 8th grade or so.
Is it really a bridge too far to believe parents can be responsible?

I have one big problem with this and it stems from the government mandating a curriculum. There's no way to broach the subject in any depth without invoking questions of an inherently moral nature.

The government at any level has absolutely no business teaching morality.
No more business than they do teaching religion.

Educating teenagers to wear condoms and facts about STD's and human sexuality is part of a well rounded education including health and biology.
But teaching 5 year olds that sometimes Billy feels like Sally and that there's nothing socially or morally wrong with that does not fall in that realm. Even if it's true.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

i don't know how you've done it, the asshole you are...but you've just won pat green's coveted post of the year award.

vagina? all you need to know is the G spot is about an inch in. stick a finger in there, turn it over, and rub. youll find what you are looking for.

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Give me a break. I didn't attack you, I attacked (if you would even call that an "attack") what you said.

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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hockey Night in Buffalo

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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hockey Night in Buffalo