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Squanto
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:09 pm 
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Carlos Spicy-Wiener
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Crosscheck wrote:
How exactly did we get from Amy Winehouse to that?


I dunno. Maybe a page an a half of generalized discussion about addictions?

Besides, doesn't matter. You've already told us that she 'wanted to kill herself' and 'didn't lack help or support', because you're a clinical addictions speciallist that knows all the facts and circumstances about her treatments.

Or maybe you just saw some stuff on TMZ.


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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:13 pm 
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PatGreen wrote:
backthatSASSup wrote:
I don't think it's fair to call people with addictions idiots

i don't either. i think people that ignore every sign (dwi, unemployment, etc) of their addictions and refuse to acknowledge they have a problem are idiots.

I worked in substance abuse and yes there are those non-functioning alcoholics that have warning signs pop up in their lives like DUI's, marriage problems etc but there is a vast number of completely functional drunks that keep jobs, hide their problem from family and so on. It's really not as cut and dry as a choice. It is typically a series of choices over years and years that leads to an addiction problem. A lot of times the person is surrounded by people who have the same behaviors so they think it's normal which makes it hard for them to see their actions are harmful until it's too late. For example, young people in the military are surrounded by other young people with virtually no supervision during their off hours...which means butt loads of drinking. Four years of that and you could be well on your way to a problem. Another aspect that makes addictions hard to treat are the physical changes that happen in your brains. It actually goes through changes that eventually make being soaked in booze normal and when you take that away it's not pretty. Yes there are people who quit cold turkey and put it behind them but for every one of those I saw I could introduce you to a dozen who struggle in hell with drinking. It can be a choice for some but for others it's a gentle slope in and a long hellish battle out, if they can get out. Most never had a defining choice because it happened slowly and one day they looked around and it was too late to just choose.

Sorry about the soap box. I have been counseling for a long time.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:13 pm 
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backthatSASSup wrote:
Addiction is an illness like any other.

That's the truth.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:21 pm 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
I worked in substance abuse and yes there are those non-functioning alcoholics that have warning signs pop up in their lives like DUI's, marriage problems etc but there is a vast number of completely functional drunks that keep jobs, hide their problem from family and so on.


When I was a young lad, my father was a raging alcoholic. Blackouts, trashing the house, beating up my mom, the whole enchilada. He never missed a day of work though, and was received many awards in the volunteer fire department he was associated with.

The only people outside the family who knew were his bar buddies, and even they didn't realize he was as bad as he was.

(To his credit, he's been clean and sober for over 25 years. Still attends AA meetings regularly. Stays on his toes. No matter my problems with him otherwise, I respect him for that. )


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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:27 am 
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Squanto wrote:
Besides, doesn't matter. You've already told us that she 'wanted to kill herself' and 'didn't lack help or support', because you're a clinical addictions speciallist that knows all the facts and circumstances about her treatments.

Yes, in the last couple pages I've done too much judging of someone I didn't know.

I also know addiction and I know excuses.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:33 am 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
She had what, one song that was mildly popular? Anyone that thinks her death is a tragedy or a sad day for music needs to wake up. I'm sad for her family but that's it. I find myself sitting here just like I did when Ryan Dunn died asking why I even known this person's fucking name. What did they do that was important, meaningful or note worthy? Jack shit. Ugh....yeah pop culture. Did anyone know that Lucian Freud, a remarkably talented and amazing painter died Wednesday? Nope. But Amy crackhead Winehouse dies and people care because she was a public train wreck. :roll:

She was immensly talented and her "Back to Black" album won 5 Grammys in 2008.

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AudSabres
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:33 am 
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I was never a fan of her music or her celebrity, but it is sad to see someone that young lose their life. I wouldn't say that it was the industry that did it to her, for all anyone knows she may have been living a substance filled life way before she made it big.

I lost a good friend earlier this month because he drank himself to death. He went from having a few beers on Friday and Saturday nights, to a liter of rum and (at least) a case of beer per day. Dr's tried to tell him to dry out, we all did but he just kept going this route until his body gave out on him and he went toxic. It is really hard to watch someone you know and are close with, become completely blinded by their vices and not be willing to see how their actions are pushing them closer to hitting that self-destruct button or what effect their actions have on others.

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Bauter88
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:11 pm 
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well its not like this is a surprise. you do hard drugs, you die. And she was 27? Wow.. i thought she was like 40 or something.. drugs do a number on the body

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Tvan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:27 pm 
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Bauter88 wrote:
well its not like this is a surprise. you do hard drugs, you die. And she was 27? Wow.. i thought she was like 40 or something.. drugs do a number on the body



This is true. I know someone who in high school was a great athlete, and had nice hair/tan skin (I was jealous...ha) but she got into weed and then prescription pills and now she looks like a mess. Gross sallow skin, greasy hair never brushed. No motivation to do anything. It's sad...and the thing is she won't quit. She likes it too much.

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sabretoothpick
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:29 am 
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Taking drugs when you're 27 is just dumb. Everyone knows that's a critical year for drug abusing musicians. When you get passed that you are in the Keith Richards-Ozzy Osbourne-zone and pretty much save.

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:03 am 
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I had a really ruthless post drafted - I feel for her family. That's it.

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acrossthelines
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
Another aspect that makes addictions hard to treat are the physical changes that happen in your brains. It actually goes through changes that eventually make being soaked in booze normal and when you take that away it's not pretty. Yes there are people who quit cold turkey and put it behind them but for every one of those I saw I could introduce you to a dozen who struggle in hell with drinking. It can be a choice for some but for others it's a gentle slope in and a long hellish battle out, if they can get out. Most never had a defining choice because it happened slowly and one day they looked around and it was too late to just choose.

Sorry about the soap box. I have been counseling for a long time.


Haven't been online in days, but :clap: to this especially. I was going to make this point.

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Los9090
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:53 pm 
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So they say drugs WERE NOT a factor...Do you guys buy this? Maybe her body just shut down.

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acrossthelines
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:06 am 
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Los9090 wrote:
So they say drugs WERE NOT a factor...Do you guys buy this? Maybe her body just shut down.


Alcohol was present in her system, though.

When coroners fail initially to determine a cause of death, does that mean that they fail to determine whether it was a homicide, suicide or natural causes, or that they fail to determine the exact cause? Obviously if it's the latter than the former can't always be determined, either, but I've wondered that...

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