I really don't care what rich people do with their money...it's their money. I don't fault them for how they got it, whether by inheritance or hard work...it's still theirs and I don't care how many jobs they create with that money. The overwhelming reason the numbers show like they do in the CNN poll is that lower income people take a simple, biased, and selfish stance on taxes. "Tax the rich more, they can afford it". That mentality wraps up an anti-corporate, anti-rich, and deflecting attitudes and takes it to voting polls where they can ignore what's fair as long as those bad rich people get taxed more.

Reform corporate tax code if necessary, reform personal tax code too but this whole idea about rich people not getting taxed enough is both selfish and not an answer to the real problem behind our debt. I see on a daily basis the extent to which lazy people rely on gov't assistance and crime to "make ends meet". Yeah right, they drive good cars decked with after market crap, have flat screens and shit tons of jewelry, and every type of designer clothing and smart phone on the market while living in gov't housing. It doesn't mean that some people don't need it while still trying to do the right thing, but I see millions of waste in gov't assistance just in my area alone, and people who simply learn to take advantage of it. If people don't do what's necessary to overcome whatever adversity they faced and make a better life for themselves, they may be worthy of gov't assistance but they shouldn't be expecting a damn thing from anybody but themselves. Problem is, they can just use their majority numbers over the rich to vote in whatever candidate that promises to be a modern day Robin Hood, no matter how unfair that really is. How's that for a shining example of democracy?

It's not about taxing rich people MORE. It's about rich folks paying the same share, as a percentage of income, as the rest of us.

Look at this chart. From 2007, but shows the idea.



The EFFECTIVE tax rate, the one that is what people actually pay, is WAY off what the tax code says should be paid because of the loopholes only available to those high income people. This is where the idea of a flat tax has some merit, because it is intended to remove loopholes and prevent this from happening.

You talk about selfishness, I talk about fairness. Is it fair that you pay 15% in taxes, and the corporate CEO pays 10%?

The corporate CEO is paying under a different tax cose that I already acknowledge should probably be re-structured (I just don't know enough about that topic yet).

As for personal income tax I stand by my opinion. I believe the chart you posted is basically saying that rich people pay less because a great deal of their wealth is not taxed as much because it's not taxed as income. It's taxed as capital gains or whatever the case may be that results in a lower rate, correct?

That wealth started as income somewhere along the line, perhaps generations before, and as such was taxed. I'm not opposed to looking at changing a "loopholoe" if it indeed is a loophole, but the overall attitude of the "have nots" simply blaming the "haves" is self serving and not the real problem. This anti-rich sentiment is flamed repeatedly in the media and does nothing to educate people even if they cared enough to be up to speed and fair in their voting. It deflects from the bigger issue of spending (in all areas) but protects the lazy asses from having to pick up their slack and get off the gov't tit. Everybody can pull more weight, but some don't lift a damn finger but still manage to point one at anybody but themselves.

I'll say it again...Our tax code is nothing more than a legalized form of blackmail. A construct which only the most powerful politicians get to use to punish and reward those who have punished and rewarded them.

It's a disgusting beast that feeds itself.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... -rich.html

This article states that raising the capital gains tax rate from 15% to 20% for those earning over 250k would bring in an extra 12 billion dollars in 2014. Let's pretend that we should raise the rate higher or that the estimate is low and say an extra 100 billion could be raised. That 100 billion is nothing compared to the 14 trillion current debt and 10-12 trillion that will be taken on over the next ten years. It would account for 10% of future debt at most, and do nothing about the current 14 trillion. Raise taxes on personal income, capital gains, and corporations (that would just shut business down or send them ALL overseas anyway) and it won't cure the problem of gov't spending or the debt.

I think you are taking the class warfare thing a bit far here 1980. The argument that people are making to repeal the Bush tax cuts is that they were intended to spark the economy by facilitating job growth. This hasn't happened(which Obama got the blame for), so they want them to return to previous levels. I find it strange that no one points out the failure of the tax cuts to spur job growth, but the same people are maligning Obama for his failed stimulus. The only thing to argue is if the previous tax levels were unfair, or if they will truly effect job growth if returned. The class warfare thing is either a media stunt, or a play by the right. 63% of people feel the tax cuts should be repealed, but it's not because they think that fat cats are getting away with anything.

Abuse of social services is relevant, but a whole new topic altogether. Trying to discuss the tax code and abuse of services at the same time is too much. One topic at a time bro.

Right...so the tax cuts failed...so obama extended them.
And the stimulus failed...so now people are talking about another round...and the printing presses have been running the whole time.

So the President is doubling down on stupid while ideologues in Washington are arguing about who gets to hold the steering wheel as the car goes over a cliff.

awesome.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

I still don't see anyone's opinion on what we (the middle class) can do about it. We have no power to stop the shit thats going on.

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I think we should be writing letters to our congressmen and women about our displeasure with the way the debt crisis was handled, that they should stop protecting their asses to keep their promises just so they can get re-elected when they need to let some of those promises go, and then use our most powerful voice come November: election day. Vote all of those clowns out and get some people in there that will truly make changes. The unfortunate thing is, I'm not sure that anyone would.

This whole debt crisis made us look like a giant joke across the world, and we're being criticized more than ever.

Perhaps a little Tyler Durden-type mayhem is in order?

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This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Emerson

Much of what you say is true (not counting the picture of IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde, which just makes no sense at all). However, many of those same factors existed a week ago, a month ago, a year ago.

Look at the Dow in the past week. It was up nearly 60 points last Friday, down 635 on Monday, up again 430 on Tuesday, down again 520 on Wednesday, and today it is currently up 350 points.

There are many things wrong with the current state of the world economy, as well as with the warped values expressed in our economic system, but this week's volatility is not a rational response to political or economic realities. It is hive mind mass hysteria, creating a self fulfilling prophecy of loss.

As I said, too many overly emotional men in the market place.

Yep.

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th' only knower of th' cosmic mysteries alive at this time

I seriously hope that's a joke. But with the riots in England at the moment, it would make for a pretty tasteless one.

Hey, things are really screwed up in our society, economy and government. I know what'll solve it, let's light some shit on fire!

Ham

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Do you believe yet?

Of course it was a joke. Terribly sorry it didn’t meet your standards for political correctness, but I bet you like my real answer even less!
I do not know what we can do as a society about the current state of politics. I do, however, know exactly what I can and will do about it as an individual. I will move to Canada as soon as I retire.

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This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Emerson

It's hard to know what anyone can do about it.

The process is run by money. Even banded together, citizens can't come up with the dollars corporations can.

What really bothers me now is that the supreme court overturned the ban on corporations donating to political campaigns. It's just absurd.

Exactly. Just makes it worse.

(But remember, when left leaning courts overturn precedent, they're activist. When right leaning courts do it, they're 'correcting past mistakes'.)

I'll take a wild guess that Unions give more money to political campaigns and mobilize more "activists" than any corporation...possibly corporations combined.

The money train is far from one sided, but you're right about one thing, individuals don't matter.

I'd also bet with almost certainty that corporations do 1000x more charity and philanthropic work than unions do.

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Hold my beer and watch this...