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NYIntensity
 Post subject: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:48 am 
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Even with the early success of the Vanek-Adam-Pominville line, Ruff said he’s not against shuffling bodies around to jumpstart other players.

“We can always flip some pieces around,” he explains. “It seems sometimes that when you do that you end up with better results. We end up with Luke up between Thomas and Jason, and that’s just from trying to get pieces to fit and work together."


Come on now. Really? Just stop.

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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:55 am 
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It's like taking a square and trying to force it into a circular hole. You try and try and eventually that wood block will wear down until it fits. But right as that block is about to fit you shuffle it up again and try to get that nearly perfectly circular player into that triangular hole. People need time to gel with other players. We can save line shuffling for later in the year when we get some injuries(hopefully only minor).


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Sabresfansince1980
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:57 am 
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I think it could easily be said that shuffling players around has not worked just as much as it has. When can we look back and remember two players in a slump, flipping them around and seeing both players start producing? One player might get started but another might not. I can't ever point to a time where there was an overall net gain in production just because of line shuffling. I sure would like to try out and see long-term line chemistry for once, just for kicks.


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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:58 am 
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He has always shuffled lines, what makes you think he'd stop? That is Lindy's coaching style, he'll never change.

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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:01 am 
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I don't think an early season jostle is what they need. I don't mind shuffling but I would let the players get comfortable with long term potential linemates first. Plus if we have one or two lines that can produce every night who gives a shit. We have four lines that can produce highly at any given time. I like our odds that on any given night at least one can produce highly enough for us to win.


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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:16 am 
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Every coach in the league shuffles lines. 3 guys playing together for months is the exception, not the rule.


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NYIntensity
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:27 am 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
I think it could easily be said that shuffling players around has not worked just as much as it has. When can we look back and remember two players in a slump, flipping them around and seeing both players start producing? One player might get started but another might not. I can't ever point to a time where there was an overall net gain in production just because of line shuffling. I sure would like to try out and see long-term line chemistry for once, just for kicks.


Kind of like after the lockout?

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Los9090
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:32 am 
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Well, he's won over 500 games so he can shuffle all he wants. Its not everyday you get a line like the French Connection or a LaFontaine/Mogilny duo.

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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:04 am 
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Los9090 wrote:
Well, he's won over 500 games so he can shuffle all he wants. Its not everyday you get a line like the French Connection or a LaFontaine/Mogilny duo.


It's hard to tell if we never get the opportunity to find out. Shuffling has obviously worked out but I would not mind seeing some regularity with at least the first two lines. I think shuffling the last two could make sense depending on what team you are playing and adapting game plan accordingly.


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sabresrocker56
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:04 pm 
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Los9090 wrote:
Well, he's won over 500 games so he can shuffle all he wants. Its not everyday you get a line like the French Connection or a LaFontaine/Mogilny duo.

*DISLAIMER* *NOT SAYING THEY ARE NEARLY AS GOOD* *DISCLAIMER*
But I think the Vanek/Pominville duo is pretty effective. Lindy should keep them together.

Not trying to be a douche, just making sure I don't create a misunderstanding. :D

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NYIntensity wrote:
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If Miller and Myers were playing like they did last year, we'd probably be over 500 right now.

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CriminallyVu1gar
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:44 pm 
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I think line chemistry is overrated. These guys are professionals playing a system. They should know where their teammates are supposed to be and what they're supposed to be doing regardless of who they are. That isn't to say it's not something, but I think it's a smaller issue than fans think.

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NYIntensity
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:05 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I think line chemistry is overrated. These guys are professionals playing a system. They should know where their teammates are supposed to be and what they're supposed to be doing regardless of who they are. That isn't to say it's not something, but I think it's a smaller issue than fans think.

I think part of it has to do with the abilities of the different players within the system. Yes, you know where you're supposed to be, but some guys are going to be there before or after others...you have to get used to that kind of timing.


As far as the 500 wins thing goes, he's also been with the club for a LONG FUCKING TIME...

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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:37 am 
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NYIntensity wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I think line chemistry is overrated. These guys are professionals playing a system. They should know where their teammates are supposed to be and what they're supposed to be doing regardless of who they are. That isn't to say it's not something, but I think it's a smaller issue than fans think.

I think part of it has to do with the abilities of the different players within the system. Yes, you know where you're supposed to be, but some guys are going to be there before or after others...you have to get used to that kind of timing.


As far as the 500 wins thing goes, he's also been with the club for a LONG FUCKING TIME...

He'd probably still have 500 wins even if he hadn't been with the Sabres this long. Ruff is a good coach and does get the most out of his players.

I like the Vanek, Adam, Pominville line, but if only one line is going to put up points, you ought to break it up because that's not how you win in the NHL. Scoring by committee seems to work the best or two offensive juggernaut lines work best.

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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:32 am 
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Once again, First two lines have potential to be offensive juggernauts. I say let them mold into something beautiful. You play with someone long enough and you learn their tendencies. Their tendencies become your tendencies. I will agree about the players working in a system. I think that goes more for players that are that "product of a system", those being our 3-4 line pairings.


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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:37 pm 
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ksquier89 wrote:
Once again, First two lines have potential to be offensive juggernauts. I say let them mold into something beautiful. You play with someone long enough and you learn their tendencies. Their tendencies become your tendencies. I will agree about the players working in a system. I think that goes more for players that are that "product of a system", those being our 3-4 line pairings.


That goes both ways, though. If you play long enough together, not only do you learn your linemates' tendencies, but the other teams watching film on you also learn these tendencies, and plan a gameplan around those tendencies.

Line chemistry is just about the most overrated thing in hockey.

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jvaccaro6
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
ksquier89 wrote:
Once again, First two lines have potential to be offensive juggernauts. I say let them mold into something beautiful. You play with someone long enough and you learn their tendencies. Their tendencies become your tendencies. I will agree about the players working in a system. I think that goes more for players that are that "product of a system", those being our 3-4 line pairings.


That goes both ways, though. If you play long enough together, not only do you learn your linemates' tendencies, but the other teams watching film on you also learn these tendencies, and plan a gameplan around those tendencies.

Line chemistry is just about the most overrated thing in hockey.


I can agree with some of that. But if you have talent and gel well together as a unit, other teams can only hope to contain your opportunities, see the Sedins-Burrows, Heatley-Spezza-Alfie from 05-08, French Connection, Triple Crown line, etc, talent beats game planning 9 times out of 10.

I think breaking up the Vanek-Adam-Pommers line is a major mistake, can shuffle around Roy, Staff, Ennis, Leino, Boyes, Gerbe all you want though, as none of those lines have been overly explosive.

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CriminallyVu1gar
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:54 pm 
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jvaccaro6 wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
ksquier89 wrote:
Once again, First two lines have potential to be offensive juggernauts. I say let them mold into something beautiful. You play with someone long enough and you learn their tendencies. Their tendencies become your tendencies. I will agree about the players working in a system. I think that goes more for players that are that "product of a system", those being our 3-4 line pairings.


That goes both ways, though. If you play long enough together, not only do you learn your linemates' tendencies, but the other teams watching film on you also learn these tendencies, and plan a gameplan around those tendencies.

Line chemistry is just about the most overrated thing in hockey.


I can agree with some of that. But if you have talent and gel well together as a unit, other teams can only hope to contain your opportunities, see the Sedins-Burrows, Heatley-Spezza-Alfie from 05-08, French Connection, Triple Crown line, etc, talent beats game planning 9 times out of 10.

I think breaking up the Vanek-Adam-Pommers line is a major mistake, can shuffle around Roy, Staff, Ennis, Leino, Boyes, Gerbe all you want though, as none of those lines have been overly explosive.


Like I said, it's not nothing, but it's not a world beater either.

The other thing that people are forgetting somewhat is that these players spend a lot of time practicing together. I'd be surprised if similar type players knew one guys tendencies significantly more than another's.

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PuckSniperPensel
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:07 am 
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Lol this should come as no surprise to anyone.

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ironyisadeadscene
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:03 pm 
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the ennis//leino//stafford line has apparently been broken up as well.

wait, was that even the line? i dont know. ive been watching baseball. proceed.

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Sabresfansince1980
 Post subject: Re: Line shuffling...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:27 am 
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http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabre ... 606427.ece

"Actually, Ville had mentioned that he'd like to go to the wing, so it's funny how it works," said Ruff of the team's offseason acquisition. "You'd like to find a line and keep them together, that would be the thing that you would hope most. I'd like to see Roy, Leino and Stafford play together for a while and gain some chemistry. I think that's the most important part. It isn't position to position, it's leaving three individuals together for a while, and they develop some chemistry."

Hmmm, maybe chemistry isn't so over rated, and maybe Ruff is seeing the light.


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