Yeah, I mean why doesn't everybody just go into computers and finance? How unrealistic to think you could get a job in education, I mean we don't need schools. Psychcology? What good ever came of that? Who needs experts on the Middle East? I don't see how that can help the economy. Environmental science? Spainish? Talk about useless degress! You want jobs, come down from that ivory tower people!

I have a degree in one of the fastest growing jobs (environmental engineering) and somewhere in the ballpark of 60,000 in debt after already paying one loan off completely. In retrospect I should have gone to a state university, but the private university I attended had a 100% job placement for its engineers, which looked to be increasingly important as the years passed. Luckily I planned well enough and saved enough money that losing my job didn't hurt me too much financially.

I'm not really adding anything to one side or another here, just telling my story.

These are the things that annoy me, some of which may actually be on topic (hooray):
While the onus is on students to manage their debt both acquired and impending (i.e. don't go to a 50k university for an arts degree dumbass) , the costs required to get a good degree from a good college seem to be getting out of hand.

Private loans are difficult to defer. I've run into this with citibank, and I quite frankly don't get it. I've made every payment on time, and have paid more than the minimum several times. Why citibank wouldn't want to defer my loan for several months to allow interest to build ultimately netting them more money while at the same time helping me manage my expenses while I'm out of work is beyond me.

Many companies shy away from hiring workers with less experience. Stop advertising for project manager positions and promote from within, putting someone in the position that knows the company and its policies. Then you can hire someone like me with less experience for the onw vacant lesser position.

Many companies are also unwilling to hire the unemployed, even though a large portion of unemployed are so through little or no fault of their own. Fuck any company that does this. Seriously.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

Especially since a lot of environmental science/engineering growth is in the southwestern US...you know...where Spanish might come in handy.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

That's not my point at all.
The guy with a BA in psych and education...knows you can't do anything with either of those without a MA...yet complains anyway that he can't find a job with a BA.

The BA in creative writing...I get that, I studied English Lit...it was my passion but I was never under any illusion it would pay my bills. This person is.

The MA in mid-east studies...if you've got a Masters you should have some idea of what you're going to do with it (say, I bet the CIA would like a person like that) but she plainly said she's unwilling to take internships to advance her career. Tough shit then.

This is a list of poor personal choices, not poor fields of study.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Of course we expect people to take responsibility for their actions (unless, of course, they are bankers, Wall Street financiers, Fortune 500 CEOs, or politicians). However, there is a little more to this decision making process that must be factored in.

First of all, teens are bombarded with the message that college is the key to prosperity. They hear, over and over again, that a college degree will increase their earning by as much as a million dollars over their lifetime. It turns out that figure, bandied about by the College Board and every high school guidance councilor in the country, is vastly over-inflated. The methodology was flawed from the start, not taking into account taxes, breaks in employment, actual salaries of college grads (as opposed to future projections), nor student debt, which has ballooned for both public and private colleges in recent years, far out pacing inflation, just at the same time that jobs for college grads have dried up.

We have collectively told these kids, 'don't worry about the debt, just get your degree.' Well, they followed our advice and are feeling a little resentful, rightfully, that the path we put them on is turning out to be a financial cul-de-sac.

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th' only knower of th' cosmic mysteries alive at this time

I get that...and it does suck the jobs aren't there right now, but that message is still the right one.

Education is the way up...bad economy or not.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Ah. Well I'm glad that I was able to manipulate your meaning so easily. It was fun.

To expound upon that, the for-profit college model that's constantly touted completely exploits this.

Years ago, I tried the University of Phoenix. Went through one semester. Before I registered, I was told all kinds of crap about job prospects, 100% job placement, all this nonsense. Then once I got suckered in, I found out that none of that was true. I cut my losses and moved on, but many others weren't as fortunate to discover those studies about the school that I did.

One of the biggest problems I have with the libertarian mantra of personal responsibility is that the same doesn't seem to apply to corporations and businesses. If a person gets screwed over because a business flat out lied or misled, it's ALWAYS the person's fault for making the choice to do business with them. The business never seems to take any heat for screwing them in the first place.

Actually, most libertarians will tell you bad businesses deserve to die. I'm talking "too big to fail" GM and AIG should have died.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

where is the problem here? sure spanish was kind of an odd minor, but environmental science? i'm not upset, but seriously, what's the problem?

I think it's the person's assertion that we'd be well on our way to solving our dependence on foreign oil which is a bit heady, but environmental job growth has been great which makes their first point fairly accurate.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

No problem with the field of study, just as I told Stuuu's's...the issue I have is poor personal decision making.

I have several friends who have degrees in environmental science and by the time they were juniors they knew exactly what they wanted to do and were even working internships.
One of them even works for an evil nasty oil company now. (making shit-tons of money too)

This person sounds like "Well I thought this would be good because there will be tons of "green" jobs right? Waaaaaa where is the green job I was guaranteed?!?!? Waaaaaaa."

...as if they have no control over their own destiny.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Choosing your major is not a slam dunk, scientific decision, though, is it?

The jobs in demand five years from now, might not even exist today. It is not a foolish move to try and anticipate the curve by studying for a profession that might be big in the future, such as the renewable energy field.

Remember the famous misquote by IBM's Thomas Watson? "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." What if an earlier generation of college students took the safe route and adhered to that sentiment, by-passing a risky computer science major for something safer and more established?

I can't fault kids for trying to figure out what jobs will be in demand when they enter the workforce, even if it turns out they were wrong. My beef is not with what people study in college (to me the biggest thing you get out of college is HOW to learn, not WHAT you learn). My complaint is with the price gauging cost of college today.

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th' only knower of th' cosmic mysteries alive at this time

And yet nobody seems to be protesting the universities.

Ham

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Do you believe yet?

I brought that up in another thread. University presidents and such make a ridiculous salary, and talk about a black hole. They make corporations look nice, because at least you're getting a tangible service or product from a corporation. College sells you a lot of potential and hope for 10-20 years of debt. What a farce, but they're a lefty haven so...


BTW, had a swell time at my local "occupy" event this weekend. Not the typical experience though. You might say I surreptitiously occupied the "occupy" movement. Lots of laughs...sort of.

I can vouch for being pushed to not only go to college, but a private college. If I ever have children, I will be advising them differently.

I would protest universities gladly.

As far as paying back student loans, there is Income-Based Repayment (ibrinfo.org), which is something that I would certainly say that the majority of college kids and people currently paying off loans don't know exists. I just found out about it a couple days ago myself, and I'm a senior. It goes off taxable income, not gross. I started college in 2008 with Stafford and Perkins loans taken out in my name. I'll qualify after consolidating the loans when I graduate both for that and for their public service loan forgiveness program if I work at a VA hospital (which is a government job, and one my father could pull some strings to get me, to some extent). Essentially, I will only have to pay <$150/month for ten years, and the rest will be forgiven. Those who don't qualify for that program still have the remainders of their loans forgiven after 25 years.

My education has also been funded by Parent Plus loans, which are, obviously, in my parents' names. Technically, I'm not responsible for those and cannot be. After a long talk with them essentially along the lines of, "If I am ever in a car accident, I will live in squalor the rest of my life," they are considering paying off those loans themselves and not having me pay them to do it, which coupled with knowing there can be acceptance into IBR is the greatest thing in the world right now.

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Miles to go before I sleep

‎"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation."
-Khalil Gibran

Here is an interesting article by Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman on Wall Street financiers whining about the Occupy Wall Street movement.

"...until a few weeks ago it seemed as if Wall Street had effectively bribed and bullied our political system into forgetting about that whole drawing lavish paychecks while destroying the world economy thing. Then, all of a sudden, some people insisted on bringing the subject up again."

Losing Their Immunity
By PAUL KRUGMAN
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/opini ... _LO_MST_FB

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th' only knower of th' cosmic mysteries alive at this time

stupid system

I stopped listening right after you said Paul Krugman. The man is a hack, and the Nobel Prize does not impart credibility any more. See also: Arafat, Yassir and Obama, Barack.

Ham

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Do you believe yet?

I was WAITING for that.

I love it when people only count awards when they are awarded to those that agree with them ideologically.