Not exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying why live in fear and stress over something that is EXTREMELY unlikely to happen? You're gonna get in a car accident statistically, you probably already have been in one. I've been in at least three, two where I was driving. I've never had a gun pulled on me despite living in cities with a population of over half a million for at least 20 years of my life. Me personally, I'm gonna worry about being on the road a lot more than getting shot and focus my efforts there.

Good points.

This whole stricter gun law thing won't solve it either. The people who are going to kill others won't obtain that gun legally. All it does it hurt the people who obtain guns legally for protection or legal actions.

I think the CC should be allowed at places that charge admission without metal detectors present.

They also said when the Assault rifle Ban was lifted gun crimes would increase with those weapons, and it hasn't risen since 04 either.

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Like I'd pointed out before, even if it were more difficult for this guy to purchase a weapon, at that point, what's to stop him from simply settling for homemade explosives? I'm much more scared of a pipe bomb than an AR.

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It might help if you guys would actually read that article I posted. It spells out pretty clearly that THERE IS a link between strict laws and declining murder rates. But I guess you guys are too expert at your theories to include any statistics.

I didn't argue that point, so I'm not sure where your point of contention is.

When it comes to mass murderers, they're going to kill a lot of people one way or another. Stricter gun control law may help prevent your day-to-day killings, but it won't do a damn thing for situations like Columbine or Aurora.

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Assault rate peaked right around the end of the 70's and has been steadily declining since the early 80's. Oddly enough, president Reagan got shot in 1981, and soon after there was the first major national gun control law called the Brady Bill. In a shocking coincidence, murder rates have gone down since.

OK, but that doesn't then give you license to sweep everything else under the rug. You guys are all conveniently ignoring that these are the exeptions to the rule in shootings. Just because there are people who will find a way to kill no matter what does not therefore mean that there aren't those who won't kill if it's harder for them to obtain deadly weapons. That's a really simplistic and dangerous argument.

I'm not sweeping a fucking thing here man. I'm talking to a very specific point.

I also said that stricter GCL WILL help. I AGREED WITH YOU.

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True. I'm kind of balling you in together with others like Skyline in this. I like that you said it will help without qualifying it this time.

Sometimes I don't make things clear enough.

So my question then becomes if you can't legislate away a situation like Aurora, does anyone really think a general arming of the population is going to help, or is going to cause so many more of what NYI calls "day-to-day" killings that it nulifies or reverses the intended effects? I think you know where I stand.

Well no one is calling for the general arming of the population, but if those of us so inclined and properly vetted are allowed to conceal carry I have absolutely no problem with that.
In fact I kinda like open carry too.
Maybe if Aurora allowed CC lives could have been saved.

No number or combination of laws would ever be able to prevent something like this.
Creating more laws in the attempt to prevent something like this would have the effect of limiting access to firearms of lawful , not the perpetrators.

The one thing I'll concede needs to be looked at is online ammunition sales. This douche bought thousands of rounds of ammo online when any brick and mortar store would have red flagged it.
The rest is just part of the price we pay for living in an open society. Dude had no criminal or mental health background and was of legal age in a state that allowed it.

A few years ago an old guy drove his car through a farmers market here in Santa Monica and killed a bunch of people. We didn't ban driving, or cars, or old people driving cars. It's just a bad thing that happened. Those are the breaks.

Again, please refer to the Norway massacre...I assume they have gun laws you'd approve of.
No assault rifles
Size limits on hand guns...hand guns must be in a size used for sport shooting only
every gun is registered and tracked
owners must justify the need and intended use to the government
all owners must pass strict training and safety courses before being licensed.
licenses only given for hunting (in the case of rifles and shotguns) or sport shooting (for hand guns)

The only people with powerful or automatic weapons work for the Norwegian government.

then there's this guy

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Norway's crime rate is also INCREDIBLY LOW. That one incident shouldn't sum up the whole argument. Allowing people to carry around assault rifles isn't exactly civilized; we have plenty of insane crazies here in America, and based on the people I've seen I think it shouldn't be easy to get a hold of a powerful gun.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

oh...and when NYI says "day-to-day" killings I think Chicago, Detroit and DC.

I kind of doubt those guns are, generally speaking, registered and licensed.
That's the crux...we're talking about restricting, licensing and registering...things lawful people do. Not things a criminal give two shits about.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

That's my point, neither should Aurora or Columbine.

He had an AR-15....it's not some ultra powerful fully automatic super-destructo machine gun. It's pretty commonplace and most hunting rifles are more powerful.
Should we ban hunting rifles?

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Hold my beer and watch this...

well since the laws wouldn't become less restrictive, i don't see more "day to day" killings happening. i do want to think (without looking it up) that a very high percentage of those deaths are related to semi/organized crime, like drug rings and gambling. i don't think you'd see those kills decreased either.


i will not argue that making guns illegal for everyone will decrease overall murders by gun.

I'd say enforcement of gun show regulations would be a huge step.

And agreed on ammo. It's messed up that tobacco via the USPS is more regulated than ammunition.

but this guy (and the Va Tech shooter) got all their guns by walking in a gun store, filling out government forms and passing background checks.
There will never be a way to prevent evil, yet sane, people from doing stuff like this.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

You know, I bought 3500 bullets from walmart last week, dude didnt blink an eye. I dont think online sales really matter, this shit is very available.

(FYI, it's cheaper when purchased in bulk, i'm not going on a rampage any time soon.)

And Squanto...what gun show loopholes are you talking about? Here in NC they require a pistol permit to buy a pistol at a gunshow, just like in a store. And they're not allowed to sell fully automatic weapons. The laws are the same at the gun show as at a gun store.

I'm reporting your ass to some sort of governmental agency with a cool sounding acronym.
So far the coolest acronym I've found is ICE, but you're not brown so they won't care.

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Hold my beer and watch this...