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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Los9090 wrote:
Man, that's real similar to Neill's hit on Drury.


That's kinda what I thought.

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sabresEH
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:40 am 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
sabresEH wrote:
As bad of a headshot that it was. Booth honestly should not have cut across the trolley tracks lookin the other way. He had just made a drop pass and admired it. Thats a no-no. Richards went in for the hit which was not even late. It was just a headshot. A brutal headshot that was suspension worthy. But Booth should also know better than to do what he did. Especially against Philly. They'll take a hit like that all day.


This is the logic that Philly fans are using, but it's just rehashed jargon. "Looking the other way" and "admiring a pass"...it's just plain BS. Booth had just turned his head to the right when he got hit, a full half second to full second after passing. This is not looking the other way, in fact some Philly fans are trying to say it was ok because he had turned forward.

As far as "admiring a pass"...nobody in this league stands with his hand to chin, with a grin on his face watching a pass...nobody. Booth merely dropped a pass and took as much time (.3 seconds maybe) to turn his head back as any player under any circumstance on the ice. This is human nature, and unless a player is purposefully trying a "no look" pass, they will take a tiny moment to see if the pass was on target in order to see where they should skate to next.

I'm more than tired of hearing this type of language, with the above types of recycled slogans, in order to justify injuring players. It's just plain BS. The NHL and players need to decide if they really want to keep playing russian roullette with themselves, because these incidents are becoming way too common. If it's not accounted for by respect from the players themselves, then the it needs to be accounted for by the rules. If the rules do not account for these hits, then the rules need to be changed.

FWIW, Scott Stevens is one of my all time favorite players. I don't ever remember him drilling a head shot from the side or behind. I just got done scouring youtube just to make sure, but every hit I saw and remember was from straight ahead against players that had their head turned away or literally straight down at their skates. And he only hit their head if they were bent down over the puck, because he never jumped up. I'm sure there were some close calls but he was not a dirty player. If he was playing today and he made a dirty hit then he should be suspended like anyone else.

Eh man I wasn't justifying anything. I said it was a suspendable hit and really I'm kind of disappointed he didnt get one. But where I grew up, and what I learned from coaches along the way is dont cut across the blueline with your head down or turned. When I watch the clip it looks to me like the puck is already off his stick when he turns his head, and that Richards committed to the hit while Booth was still looking forward. I'm not trying to justify anything that's just the way I see it. I see it as two players both making mistakes(although one is bigger than the other).

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End The Curse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:32 am 
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It wasn't a cheap shot, just a freakish hit that caused a very scary injury. The NHL was correct in not issuing a suspension.

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End The Curse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:42 am 
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How different we react when it's our guy dishing out the punishment.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:58 am 
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End The Curse wrote:
It wasn't a cheap shot, just a freakish hit that caused a very scary injury. The NHL was correct in not issuing a suspension.


Yeah, because a shoulder to shoulder hit (Campbell on Umberger) is even remotely close to a shoulder to the face.


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End The Curse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:17 am 
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Absolutely not. Campbell went for the kill shot and made a direct hit on Umberger's jaw with his shoulder. Home bias causes people to see what they want to see.

EDIT: By the way, I don't think Campbell's hit was dirty, either. Borderline? Maybe, and clearly a shot to KO an unsuspecting opponent, but not dirty. Same with Richards, IMO.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:41 am 
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End The Curse wrote:
Absolutely not. Campbell went for the kill shot and made a direct hit on Umberger's jaw with his shoulder. Home bias causes people to see what they want to see.

EDIT: By the way, I don't think Campbell's hit was dirty, either. Borderline? Maybe, and clearly a shot to KO an unsuspecting opponent, but not dirty. Same with Richards, IMO.


Whatever. Home bias my ass. I call out a Sabres player for taking a cheap shot just like I would any other player in the league. I've made my position clear many times over the years that I want these cheap shots to the head out of the game, no matter who is doing them.

Campbell's hit was not dirty. Not one iota. Richards' was a blindside attack on a player's head.


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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:08 am 
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I think in my first post I made the distinction between hits from the side or behind and ones from straight ahead. Campbell came straight on, Richards from the side. Campbell hit him in the chest, Richards hit the head.

There have been and will be times when a player tries to hit neck down but the player lowers his head or the follow through makes contact with the head. Why not just make it simple (and safer) and just call any hit from the side, rear, and chest up an assumed intent to injure? Why make the refs have to split hairs with a split second glimpse over whether it was a shoulder hit or a head shot? Just make players have to hit from straight ahead, chest down, or from the side chest down.

I don't want to hear whiners talk about how that's a wimpy way to play. I lowered my shoulder into player's ribs for hits on the ice, blocking and tackling on the football field, and into catchers while scoring on plays at the plate. If you actually care enough about scacrificing YOUR OWN BODY enough to make the play, you'll do it and take a guy out without risking his season or career. Hits to the gut or ribs will hurt like hell, make him puke, take his breath away, or crack/break a bone, but it won't end his career. If I hear someone talk about that being wimpy, I think they really mean that they aren't tough enough to bend down, drive with their legs and take a shoulder impact in order to take a guy out the hard and honest way.

Besides, what's the real point of a head shot? Even if you just get a piece of the mid section you're still going to get him off the puck. If you make a great hit and get a turnover for a scoring chance guess what? The whistle blows because of the injury anyway. Players and the NHL need to re-think this stuff because it's not worth a regular dose of season ending injuries or worse, and it's going full bore in that direction.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:25 am 
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The biggest problem is the league's inconsistency on the subject with regards to supplemental discipline.

The unwritten rule for years is that unless someone gets seriously injured, or an offense involved blatant stickwork, nobody gets suspended. It's archaic and barbaric.

Punishment should fit the crime, not the outcome. Until the league pulls their head out of their ass and does it right, nothing is going to change.


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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
I think in my first post I made the distinction between hits from the side or behind and ones from straight ahead. Campbell came straight on, Richards from the side. Campbell hit him in the chest, Richards hit the head.

There have been and will be times when a player tries to hit neck down but the player lowers his head or the follow through makes contact with the head. Why not just make it simple (and safer) and just call any hit from the side, rear, and chest up an assumed intent to injure? Why make the refs have to split hairs with a split second glimpse over whether it was a shoulder hit or a head shot? Just make players have to hit from straight ahead, chest down, or from the side chest down.

I don't want to hear whiners talk about how that's a wimpy way to play. I lowered my shoulder into player's ribs for hits on the ice, blocking and tackling on the football field, and into catchers while scoring on plays at the plate. If you actually care enough about scacrificing YOUR OWN BODY enough to make the play, you'll do it and take a guy out without risking his season or career. Hits to the gut or ribs will hurt like hell, make him puke, take his breath away, or crack/break a bone, but it won't end his career. If I hear someone talk about that being wimpy, I think they really mean that they aren't tough enough to bend down, drive with their legs and take a shoulder impact in order to take a guy out the hard and honest way.

Besides, what's the real point of a head shot? Even if you just get a piece of the mid section you're still going to get him off the puck. If you make a great hit and get a turnover for a scoring chance guess what? The whistle blows because of the injury anyway. Players and the NHL need to re-think this stuff because it's not worth a regular dose of season ending injuries or worse, and it's going full bore in that direction.


This. Pretty sure that Umberger was injured when his head hit the ice, not when Campbell hit him.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Regarding the hit, Richards had every right to hit him. He passed the puck just before he got it, in a time where he "technically" had possession of it.

Booth was sorta looking away from Richards and had been hunkered over a bit when he got hit.

In question it just looks like Richards was going for a hit, but not the head, a shoulder to the head is a bit different seeing him deliberately going for his head with elbows.

It looks like his shoulder caught him close to the cheek, and it sucks for Booth to have to sit out.

But it is true, get rid of the instigator rule, let them fight when this happens. Or if the coach had some balls just let the player got out and make a statement, even if he gets suspended from the crap Instigator rule.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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icehound
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Ya don't hit a guy when he ain't lookin' - Just not sportin' is all.


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End The Curse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:21 pm 
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It's a tough game for tough players who know they risk getting the crap knocked out of them at any moment. I'd take Richards on my team right fucking now...a tough nut like that who racks up 30 goals a season is invaluable.

Now, if you really want to complain about Mike Richards:


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Sc's#1SabresFan
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:35 pm 
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When i first watched the video i didn't think it was cheap at all. Upon watching it again i discovered he didn't have the puck. It's borderline.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:24 pm 
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End The Curse wrote:
It wasn't a cheap shot, just a freakish hit that caused a very scary injury. The NHL was correct in not issuing a suspension.


Exactly.

People are all up in arms because players are getting hurt, but the fact of the matter is, these hits, including the one on Drury, were within the rules of the NHL.

You're allowed to finish your check on a player after he releases the puck, so long as you're within 3 strides.

Open ice hits are a great way to separate a player from the puck, but 80% of the time, they just don't happen unless the puck carrier isn't paying attention.

Players are taught on ice awareness from DAY ONE of Peewees when you start to hit. Always have your head up, know where your opponents are.

Booth passed one way and skated in another, and chose to look behind him instead of who was near him.

It's unfortunate that these injuries happen, but the only way to stop these hits to the head all together is to banish open ice hits. And that is NOT going to happen.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:32 pm 
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rbochan wrote:
There is no way anyone can justify this hit as OK. He hit him in the head. That is all you need to know.


Yes I can. Because by the NHL rules, it was clean. I've hit players in the head with my shoulder before, and not been assessed a single penalty.

I've been hit in the head before, and missed a month of my season with a mild concussion... but it was my own fucking fault, because I was looking down at the blade of my stick.

Did you ever play hockey?

It sucks, but it's part of the game.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Yea I agree also PSP. It could have been called either way.

When I watched it the hit I thought Booth should have been looking around for the hit, especially against a Flyers team. And the hit was legal even if he dropped the puck off. He, within the rules of the NHL, still had possession of the puck and was allowed to get hit.

It's unfortunate hits like that happen, and teams just aren't allowed to do something about it. I'd love to see the instigator rule taken out also, but then you need to groom another worthless hockey player just to fight again. Or at least get guys who can play hockey and fight.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:50 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Players are taught on ice awareness from DAY ONE of Peewees when you start to hit. Always have your head up, know where your opponents are.

Booth passed one way and skated in another, and chose to look behind him instead of who was near him.

It's unfortunate that these injuries happen, but the only way to stop these hits to the head all together is to banish open ice hits. And that is NOT going to happen.


And this is the attitude that allows this sort of thing to continue.

The premise that players somehow 'deserve' being injured by a blow to the head because they were looking a certain way is downright absurd. The common refrain of 'always have your head up' means exactly dick. You can have your head up and be looking where you're 'supposed to', and STILL get blasted in the dome unnecessarily.

You want these hits out of the game? For starters, PUT IN A FUCKING RULE that disallows them. Then, penalize, fine, and suspend players who are guilty of doing it. Sure, now and then circumstances will be such that a player will clock another player on an otherwise legal check, but be nailed because he drilled him in the head. Such is life. I'd rather have that than the blatant headhunting that happens today.

People need to stop blaming the recipients of these hits with 'keep your head up' or 'strap your helmet tighter'. It's akin to telling a shooting victim that he should have paid more attention to where he was.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:53 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
I've hit players in the head with my shoulder before, and not been assessed a single penalty.

Just because it's legal doesn't mean you should do it.

PuckSniperPensel wrote:
I've been hit in the head before, and missed a month of my season with a mild concussion... but it was my own fucking fault, because I was looking down at the blade of my stick.

Wrong. The fault lies with the person who hit you in the head.

PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Did you ever play hockey?

It sucks, but it's part of the game.


Yes, I do. And it shouldn't be part of the game. I'm all for tradition, but I don't think concussions should be a protected legacy.


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Filosofem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:58 pm 
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this was a flyers like hit...he should be suspended

the ppl should learn something

i´m glad that booth is fine....

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