Yes, and both are correct. And the term World Champion is a misnomer. WBC winner is a world champion. WS winner is a North America Champion.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

matsui is a corner outfielder and a left handed bat, which the tigers do not have. so yeah, id love to have matsui and his high OPS manning left field over ryAAAn rAAAburn... notice how his name is spelled AAA.

oh, and 1980, i didnt dig at you over romancing players. but it is a trait many many yankee fans have.

and sure, he has rings. its a team sport. the yankees probably would have most of those rings without jeter as well.

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Besides having many World Series Championships under his belt, Jeter is also Fourth all time in Batting Average in World Series play( with at least 100 at bats) hitting .321 only behind Babe Ruth, Eddie Collins, and Lou Gehrig. Pretty good names to associate with. And Jeter this season just passed Lou Gehrig for All time yankee hits. A pretty awesome feat. He may not have the best range defensively as you pointed out, but overrated, he is not. He's a damn respectable baseball player.

baseball goes both ways. he is very solid offensively. but he is very below average defensively. hence, overrated. he spends more time in the field then at the batters box.

you ask pretty much anyone not associated with the yankees or a fan of the yankees, its pretty universal he is vastly overrated. hell, hes not even the best shortstop on the yankees!

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im also sure that pretty much any team in the major leagues would kill to have a Derek Jeter on their team. The guy has a natural leadership ability. and I can't recall a time this season when his defense cost the Yankees a game. He has some errors, but as someone stated earlier, he only had 8 this season. and he does have the ability to make a clutch play. Have you ever seen "the flip" play when Jeter pretty much ran across the field to make a play on Jeremy Giambi at home plate? I think that was in 2001? He comes up big when needed. That's what makes him great.

"but he is very below average defensively. hence, overrated".

Nobody rates him as a great defensive player in the first place, so how is he overrated?

The romanticizing comment was just in case criminal was referring to me, either way I don't take offense.

the flip was a baserunning error on giambis part, pure and simple. if giambi slides, like he should have, hes safe. right place, right time, nice play. but if he slides, its a forgotten play in history. its one of those plays where things are overlooked. like, bill buckners flub in the 1986 world series. even if buckner fields it cleanly, mookie wilson was safe, because no one was covering first, and buckner couldnt have gotten there on his terrible ankles.

the issue was never with jeters errors. he has a great glove. its that many many should-be outs get past him for base hits. and in the end, isnt that what matters? its too bad he doesnt have a better arm, because he would make a fantastic third basemen. that would allow a-rod to play shortstop, where he is a much much better shortstop then jeter.

he doesnt compare to the griffeys, or johnny benches, or mantles, or kalines, because he is a one dimensional player. people say the yankees wouldnt be the yankees without him. im not so sure about that. they would have gone out and gotten another shortstop, and they wouldnt have missed a beat.

oh, i forgot. they did go out and get that shortstop. mr alex rodriguez, who is leaps and bounds better then jeter in every facet of the game.\

so, how is he overrated? here it is:

statistically, he hits for a nice average. very nice average. thats good. hes hitting over .300 every year! impressive! no, hes not challeging .400 or hitting .360 or anything close. just a nice, high average. check. power? hmmm, he hits 10-20 home runs a year (has he ever hit more then 20? i dont think so. but im not positive) im going to say average... baserunning. hes a good base runner, but he doesnt steal 50 bags a year, slightly above average, but, hes not a major threat. defense? HA! arm? average at best, realistically, its slightly below average.

so, how is he overrated? people treat him like he is god, when he is a one tool player. and his one tool he has, isnt THAT great. if he was hitting .360 or something, ok. case closed. but hes not. hes a fairly soft-hitting, poor defensive, new york yankee.

for player comparison, have a look at michael young down in texas. VERY VERY same player mold.. but, hes a texas fuckin ranger, so who the fuck is he?

bottom line, jeter is great only because of the uniform he puts on, otherwise, hes just a very solid baseball player.

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Very true...I hate that 'world champion' mumbo jumbo.

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"...they came down into the stands and asked if I knew how to do play by play. I said...No. But. I'll take a shot at it if you want".- Rick Jeanneret

I agree with you for the most part, but A-Rod doesn't have the clutch hitting that jeter has. He is what he is, remarkably consistent, solid player on probably the best team in baseball in the last 15 years. Take jeter off the yankees and he probably doesn't have a single ring, and the yankees still get 4 or 5.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

clutch hitting is such a buzzword. i dont really buy it. your arnt against a clock, its getting your pitch, and hitting it. at the same token, ive often wondered about his stats had be been on a normal team. without (insert star player here) behind him, pitchers could and would pitch him must more carefully, and his average could drop as much as 20 points.

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Jeter's career averages with runners in scoring position: .311 in the regular season, .253 in the playoffs.


You're actually right.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I still feel like they win the World Series every single year. That's what my childhood was. It's odd to think that this was the first time in a decade.

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Miles to go before I sleep

‎"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation."
-Khalil Gibran

alex, ive yet to be wrong in this thread

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I've actually yet to be wrong ever.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

THREAD SUMMARY:

Jeters defensive range is often over rated by yankee fans but his offensive product kind of helps mask that to some extent.

His status in baseball might be a product of playing for the Yankees but he does have solid leadership and "playoff hitting" skills.


did i miss anything or can everyone agree with these statements?

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Check out my website: http://www.artistzero.com

"That wasn't very nice...I do believe you killed my hat."

Driver of the FIRE LINDY RUFF Bandwagon since 2008.

i can. and i enjoy these debates. i hope i havnt chapped anyones asses with these comments.

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They should make Baseball much more interesting.

you get ONE Pitch only, and not a pitch that is impossible to hit, and you swing at this pitch because it's the only one you're going to get.


So swing and hit, or not swing and be out. Make the game better because it would go quicker, and you don't see two guys scratching their balls and spitting for ten minutes between the pitches.

Go through the entire team twice if you want to also.

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baseball is the perfect sport. its the most challenging, while the most simple at the same time. dont fuck with it. the strategy involved in baseball is more then any other sport.

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WRONG!!! The thread summary is, "congrats to Yankee fans and thanks to the four long time contributors to the team".

Then irony wanted to dump on Jeter for a while because he's bitter that a classy athlete that has had a ton of success isn't slammed for a fairly minor flaw in his game. There are a ton of players with more flaws in their game, but Jeter is a Yankee, and irony hates the Yankees, so Jeter must be torn down from his imagined golden pedestal that all Yankees are imagined to be on in the minds of Yankee haters.

I can say this with an absolutely clear and unbiased conscience, because I stood by the Yankees for 16 years before they won shit. 16 years while Detroit won the WS, Boston stomped on them, and Steinbrenner micromanaged the team into a joke. I have no convoluted images or memories of glory and legend, just a bunch of mediocrity and disappointment while classy men like Mattingly and Winfield never were rewarded for their efforts.

So when another classy player like Jeter is getting slammed for some irrational preception that he's a god just because he's a Yankee - for of all things the end all/be all stat of "range factor", I'm going to call bs on it. Bs because he's just been fortunate enough to be a very good player on a string of very good baseball teams. No more, no less. Any team's fans will hold their guys at a higher level, that happens everywhere, but I don't recall anyone tearing down Garciaparra or Ramirez (aside from being an idiot) for their flaws. Same for Canseco and McGwire, Larkin and Davis, Carter and Molitor and Fernandez, or any player from a WS winner beside NY over the last decade. That's because nobody has won it as many times as NY lately, and only the teams and players that have been on top the most ever get a target on their back.

I don't remember people tearing down Montana for his lack of arm strength, or Emmitt Smith for his lack of breakaway speed, Jordan for his shooting %, or Gretzky for his lack of physical play and defense. Fans accepted them for the things that they did great. A Yankee though??? People don't like the Yankees because they are "bought" (even though other owners could try to pay for better players but don't, and the Yankees pay out 30 MILLION a year in luxury tax to the rest of the MLB), or because their fans think they are great and even should win the WS every year (like other fans wouldn't after 27 titles).

So this sniping at a player like Jeter really isn't about reality, it's about perception. The perception that Jeter is put on a pedestal. But guess what? As much as some people think that way (validating irony's thought) many others do not (which invalidates irony's thought). So irony's perception that other people's perception is wrong...is also wrong. So get over it. Jeter has done enough to fairly garner respect and recognition. There are only a small handfull of SSs that could have filled in for him with that level of play, over that same period of time and reaped the rewards of five WS titles. They would also be held in higher esteem around the league just for having won five titles, but Jeter was lucky enough to be that guy. He's also classy enough to handle that recognition in a respectable manner.

Get over the Yankee hatred.

uh, no. hes treated as a god, when hes simply a very good player. ive used facts to prove my point. whats yours?

and, i hate to break it to you, but hes not that classy.

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