61 megabytes to topple a false empire?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/james ... l-warming/

A sample:


You know what? I don't think anything pisses me off more than dishonest "scientists".
Conversely, I don't think there's anything that makes me happier than white-hat hackers.

That's a nice research grant you have there. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

The raw files are still available online for the time being....

http://www.thelaymanscorner.com/HACRU/

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

Too little Too late! And thank god for that.
I own a renewable/alternative energy company. The very fact the end of this article attempts to site "higher" utility rates do to the industries technology is pure fantasy.
I can sell energy from a Wind Farm in the midwest at 4.5 cents a kwh. The same price the "Fossil Fuel" generating facilities are getting for their production and the wind farm would still have a decent ROI. And lets face it, it is better for the air quality. Although, tell that to the migrating birds, they would flip you the middle feather as they get to watch their pals get thumped by turbine blades .

But as for Global Warming and certain groups attempts to manipulate data to foster an atmosphere of "fear" in order to change resource usage, this I do believe is happening to an extent. On both sides of the aisle for that matter. These guys are scumbags for not being honest. I would just as soon throw their asses in an incenerator unit to create electricity .

_________________
Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.

yeah...get the scam in fast before the people know the difference.

And yet it would be impossible to power even the smallest of cities with any imaginable combination of "green" energy...at least for the foreseeable future.
And I bet no wind farm can compete with nuclear.
For that matter, why aren't nuke plants considered green???

Frankly, I expect the politicians and policy makers to lie to us, but this is beyond the pale.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

1. The too little too late comment was towards the time it took to expose this behavior, not the attempt to "SCAM" someone, or anyone.

2. The "Green Energy" that I deal with is utility scale and self sustaining, what happens when oil and coal supplies dwindle? Green Energy, or renewable energy is the answer. And Nuke plants cannot be considered green, they have no infinite natural supply. As with coal and oil, radioactive based material on the planet is not infinite. Not to mention the elevated risk factors with the plants. Ever built a power plant? I worked with MMR Group at the Savannah river site for an upgrade, the dangers are greater at these plants and the costs are immense due to those dangers.

3. As I stated and you quoted, my industry doesn't need scumbags such as these to enhance it. We are doing just fine without them. Whether or not global warming is real or fantasy, I would need more data then we currently have and even then it could be a natural phenom. Only 100 years or so of the industrial age, to little time to really tell in my opinion.

_________________
Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.

www.fullcircleenergy.net

This technology is just coming online, its green, its 100% renewable and a 2000 ton per day facility generates 213MW of power. This is one of many different renewable energy models that task themselves to take care of multiple environmental issues.

Fossil fuels will still be needed for now, but your statement of renewable energy not having the ability to power a population center is a FAIL.
Its already been clearly proven that a solar thermal field half the size of the state of Arizona could power the entire nation currently.
Wind power will be roughly 27% of this nations power supply in a mere 15 years. Its not even a matter of debating the facts here, its going to happen.
Transmission capacity on the current grid has already received a 17 billion dollar commitment from private investment and has been slated for an additional 24 billion in federal funds. And before anyone has a thought of saying "not our tax dollars" what in the hell do you say when you get on the Eisenhower thruway system "Completely paid for by federal funds".

_________________
Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.

slesh, you own a renewable energy company? VERY interested. ive been shouting for more green energy for about 5 years now.

_________________

Current reality:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/ ... eport.html

I see a very large gap in what's being touted (solar and wind) and what is actually happening.

Additionally, the 20% wind prediction is based on several major factors that are by no means foregone conclusions.
First and foremost, it requires an enhanced transmission infrastructure (nice to talk about but much harder to do especially with a tanked economy).
It also requires streamlined siting and permitting (have fun with all the NIMBY folks added on top of the usual environmental impact statements).
http://www.energy.gov/news/6253.htm

Since I'm told the point of this exercise is to limit greenhouse gas emissions, I would have to conclude that nuclear is the only way to accomplish that in my lifetime quite frankly.

EDIT: and please don't take this the wrong way.
I'm 100% for exploiting every renewable source of energy we can find. I just tend to think we're being sold a bill of goods to forward a global political agenda and not to actually combat "global warming", real or perceived.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

lol, I'm not taking it the wrong way CrossCheck. I just happen to know the numbers your quoting and the information your using as source material is and should be all over the industry. We have things coming your not aware of, things will take immense amounts of electricity. We are going to need all of the renewables, even wind and solar. I go to meetings with the DOE all of the time and the grid is going to get its make over, about 1 trillion dollars worth in total and almost all of that will be private funding.

As for Nuclear, it cost 14 billion dollars to build one of these plants and that number is conservative. The enviromentalists who speak on the dangers of these plants are correct, it is an unnecessary risk to the general population. Not while we have so many other fuel sources that are natural at our disposal. China has surppased the U.S. in the field of renewables. Sad but true. We have projects tht company are working on as an advisor firm right here, locally and they show gret promise. You can't just build a reactor for a Waste Management Plant which takes alot of power, but you could throw a couple of 45KW turbines on the property or solar to offset those costs and that are incurred for the operation or you could go the geo-thermal route if your in the right area.
China = 4000+ coal fired power plants
U.S. = 1482 current coal fired power plants.

Then there is Buffet, there is a reason he bought Burlington Railroad. It was for the track runs crrenlty in place from the midwest to the west coast. He was no dummy, he is fully aware of the magnatic levatatioin passenger and cargo trains that are in the planning for the future in this nation. With that on the plate, he now owns the runs that most of the new tracks will be built on. MagLevs take immense amounts electricity to operate and the electricity is derived from regional sources. Alot is happeneing beyond what you see in the news or read on the DOE or other published sights.

Like I said, my company reads business plans and pro forma's all day long. Actually, myself and my staff do vet about 3 utility sized projects a week. Its over for fossil fuels, the supply to demand ratio establishes this fact alone.

_________________
Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.

Ya Irony, www.eninthal.com
I'm an industrial electrician, I used to travel the country as a master electrician and build powerplants.

_________________
Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.

This may be the biggest social issue we have(if you consider the lack of funds to solve REAL problems an issue). Someone with big balls, and a big knife is who we need in the White House. We have PLENTY of tax revenue, we just waste a ton of it.

What's really sad about this is how many otherwise well meaning and intelligent people were played the fools by the environmentalist mafia. I would recommend that those of us who always knew better try our best to resist the temptation to mock those who unwittingly fell for the Global Warming hoax with "I told you so's". They are going to go through a very rough time, with all the stages of grief that are associated with finding out they were just useful idiots getting suckered by some very bad and manipulative people.

We should have the same compassion for these poor souls as we would have for a child who suddenly learns there is no Santa Clause...their hearts are broken now, but hopefully they learn from this humiliating experience and we need to welcome them to reality with open arms.

_________________
Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

Not surprising at all (if legitimate; looks like it is). I've long suspected the occurrence of such things within the "scientific" (/human/deceptive) community. It is the same everywhere else within the public sphere; why would it not extend there?

_________________
Miles to go before I sleep

‎"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation."
-Khalil Gibran

I have to say the debate over windpower has divided our little town completely in half. As the local barber, I've heard a lot on both sides of the fence, and this is where I currently stand: (now you guys can all sleep better at night knowing MY opinion LOL)

I am ALL FOR researching renewable energy sources. Any and all steps we can take to distance ourselves from depending on others for our energy is great. HOWEVER, take the Tug Hill windfarm in Lowville. Probably one of the newest windfarms and best examples the industry has to offer. It is currently running at 11% efficiency and provides the grid with 1% of its power. Also, the turbines have to be replaced after 10 years. What do we do with the old ones? It leaves many questions as to the benefit of such a visual obstruction, not to mention the harmful effects the anti-wind people tout, such as the low frequency sound put off when placed near a village (like MINE) and the effects on people with problems like epilepsy due to light flicker. I don't really care that much about the stupid birds that fly into them. They're about as intelligent as the ones that fly into my front windows.

Across the river, Wolfe Island has been raped by windmills. You should see it at night, looking over at the island...its like War of the Worlds with all those blinking red lights! Creepy! And, so much for our sunsets. Bleh! And, the woman that spearheaded the windfarm on Wolfe Island came to one of our town meetings and said she regrets some of the decisions she made and to tread slowly into such a decision for Cape Vincent.

My husband thinks the turbines should be on top of the skyscrapers in NYC because that's where the energy is going to, anyway, much like the energy generated by Niagara Falls. If they're the beneficiaries, let THEM look at them.

Anyhow, as I said, I'm happy to research renewable energy, but before we make our towns and countryside into an industrial wasteland, we need more research into them.

_________________
Its NNYFAN, but you can just call me Kris.

Turbines in any electrical producing endeavor have to be replaced periodically. Wind farms are no exception.

Also, did it ever cross your mind that some of our members around here might be of middle eastern descent, and may find the term 'towel-heads' kind of offensive?

25% Syrian here. Saying things like "towel heads" makes me want to completely ignore anything you post, even though I was already halfway there after you said the US was "at war with Islam".

Yeah, especially if they're a mod...

_________________
Proud LGBTQQ Individual

sorry...fixed..and I apologize. it was NOT a nice thing to say.

_________________
Its NNYFAN, but you can just call me Kris.

I believe Ice is also of arab descent, right? Egyptian if I remember correctly?

_________________
Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

So what part of global warming is a hoax?

The part that says humans are causing it, or the part that it's happening at all?

I mean, there's evidence everywhere that it's really occurring.

_________________
Wheelhouse