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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

Well, I'm going to read through it all, but I have a hard time believing a "hacker" uncovered a massive storage of falsified information as proof against global warming.

I've been a skeptic of it due to political reasons in the past, and the fact that there's a ton of money involved in the whole scheme.

Still, I'm going to have to look through this material and research those cited in it before I draw a conclusion.

I'm sure things are being exaggerated to an extent, but the only way to get the governments of the world to pay attention and invest in ideas is to create a crisis.

Essentially, they could be doing what they're doing to force us to start the change before it's too late.

As it is, think of all the years it's going to take us to make this transition.

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Wheelhouse

Someone (else) listens to Rush...

I think the most unfortunate thing about it is it raises questions in regards to the credibility of scientists everywhere. I think this is what Limbaugh meant to insinuate when he gleefully stated yesterday that everything involved with any environmentalist movement is a lie.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

This.

We live in a world where everyone looks out for theirselves and their own. One of the issues was the manipulation of tree ring data to estimate temperatures before that data was recorded. Scientists basically cherry picked three tree rings that illustrated lower temperatures in the past to exaggerrate any possible warming trend. If someone tells you, here's XX million dollars to see the data this way, are you going to refuse? Sure, some might have the integrity to decline, but most will have the mantra, "screw it, I'm taking the guarantee that my family will eat and my kids will go to college."

Everyone is greedy to a certain degree. This whole scenario is basically a lesson in why capitalism doesn't work.
(Kidding)

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

In any research community or environment, you WILL find a way to report evidence that supports your hypothesis. That being said, the Earth goes through climate cycles. If I'm not mistaken, we're currently IN an ice age, and it's not unthinkable that the Earth is just on its way out of it.

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This is where proper planning of a community, from its location to its acceptable living standard would have to be vetted. The new energy sources are going to happen. People just need to accept the facts that oil and coal are not an abundant resource if you conintue to dwindle supplies at the rate the human race is. Therefore, renewable sources of energy is the next logical choice.

I don't think people truly understand or grasp the multitude of factors that go into a solar or wind farm. As for the planning, governments at every level need to look at the zones these power generating facilities will be best located and plan the area acoordingly. The population at large will have to start to think outside of the box on this. As for putting these massive turbines ontop of buildings, its not impossible, with the right design, but in the end, it may not be the best resource zone (wind area, or solar area).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32394433/fr ... ginSlide=1

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Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.

Actually given the predictability of the Earth and the Solar System, and the Universe for that matter, and considering that a mere 14,000 years ago, the area of the Great Lakes was covered with thousands of feet of ice, and that the Earth has been steadily warming since, and the ice cap has been receding since, it would stand to reason that the Earth is still in its natural warming cycle. And further, that the all powerful human species may not in fact be powerful enough to change the Earth's climate nor powerful enough to stop the changes.

Could it be that, not withstanding the "look at me, I'm the rooster crowing," syndrome of certain scientists and politicians who can manipulate statistics and prove or disprove virtually any hypothesis at will and the mass of sheep in this country will follow blindly, could it be that there are those who are afraid of the inevitable occurrence of the extinction of humans and are the first to create mass hysteria? OR could it be merely a case of a few loud mouths creating a case of self-worth to justify a lucrative existance.....

I am all for the promotion of "Green", but firmly against the manipulation of facts and motives for it. When the sheep finally "get it", the projects will have lost all credibility and basically discarded...perhaps that is the premise. And I also have an issue with "green, but not in my yard." Wind farms may be ugly... paint smiley faces on them, or corkscrew stripes. And noise? Ever hear the roar of strip mining? Or the thousand of pieces of equipment to repair them? OR live in the dust and filth of oil fields?

Nuclear power is a viable and powerful alternative. We have safely sail nuclear powered ships all over the world in lieu of oil burning boilers for steam turbines and diesel fueled engines. The entire world houses power plants which are sucessfully and safely operated. Perhaps instead of spending billions of dollars on
useless rhetoric concerning rain forests, we should be researching how to use nuclear waste instead of discarding it, and build plants in rain forest areas, developing those areas, teaching those populations how to sustain themselves without ruination of the forests. ( I realize that huge businesses are destroying them, but it is the insurgents doing the actual work there and merely for a living. If there were alternatives available, they would look elsewhere) I suppose in a word, we have our priorities askew.....

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I try to think, but nuttin happens.......Curley Howard
There is no past as it exists merely as a slippery bond tying the memories of the past to the dreams of the future.............Me
If we started life as an old person and lived until we were young, we would eventually finish off fucked as an orgasm.......George Carlin

Your response starts out seeming to counter mine, but I think we're in the same frame of mind...I just want to make sure?

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Same....only it seems we are warming out of the last ice age. Who knows how warm. Probably until the atmosphere has enough molecules of water (cloud cover) to shield the sun, reducing convection, and causing a cooling effect. Or perhaps as the Earth's axis oscillates more toward the Sun, the Polar Caps will warm further. Then the 27000 year oscillation cycle will reverse and the poles will move move away from more direct angles. The concept we as 100 year life span beings have a hard time comprehending is the length of time these cycles take. We have archaeological evidence of the cycles, but still, even that record can be manipulated to prove or disprove anything. Much the same as the government manipulating unemployment figures....statistics are governed by the statisticians who create them.

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I try to think, but nuttin happens.......Curley Howard
There is no past as it exists merely as a slippery bond tying the memories of the past to the dreams of the future.............Me
If we started life as an old person and lived until we were young, we would eventually finish off fucked as an orgasm.......George Carlin

60% of all statistics are made up, 100% of the time

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Ham

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Do you believe yet?

Hey look!



The asshole that "massaged" the original climate data from 1904-1994 actually made a code comment calling it a "fudge factor".
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/ ... ate_r.html

Prof. at CRU steps down
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 37_pf.html

prof. at Penn State under investigation
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/paper-trail ... egate.html

This is just getting started.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

It seems simple to me....this group/cause/committee that all rally around Global Warming depend on goverment funding. How much funding do you think they would receive if they just said that Global Warming may or may not be a threat and that its just a theory? If they make us all think that Manhattan will be underwater if we don't stop driving SUV's and being selfishly wasteful (unless, of course, you're Al Gore and then you have a free pass to waste as much jet fuel, etc as you want because you're offsetting your carbon footprint with all you're doing to save the world <barf>), the government will throw truckloads of money at them to research it as much as possible. Now the cat's outta the bag, I hope the lawsuits start. A TON of people have made A TON of money off this steaming pile of crap and its nothing short of criminal...imho.

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Its NNYFAN, but you can just call me Kris.

I've long said that I don't discount global warming as a theory, nor do I dispute the assertions that human interactions with the environment may have had negative effects.

That being said, I don't think that science has enough direct data to prove OR disprove either end of the spectrum. The climate of this planet has a natural cycle on the scale of thousands of years. Relying on data from a couple hundred years is a bit shortsighted, especially when you consider the inaccuracy of measuring devices 100 years ago when compared to today.

However, I don't believe that these leaked emails prove some sort of massive conspiracy. They seem cherry picked and filtered from normal academic conversation. There's a reason why peer-reviewed papers are accepted well; anything that isn't correct and accurate science doesn't get published.

And yet, from the emails it seems there was a push to corrupt the peer review process. If a journal publishes contrary papers, fight to have the editor removed. Or have all your supporters stop submitting papers to that publication, thereby delegitimizing it.

It's very similar to the push against Fox News. The left is trying to marginalize it by constantly critiquing it and "suggesting" other major news organizations not cover anything Fox News breaks. It's straight out of Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. Pick your target. Go on the offensive. Marginalize it.

There has been all kinds of dissent on the global warming issue. But you can't claim that those dissenters have been given a fair shake. They were ostracized and scoffed at as if the science behind global warming was such a slam dunk that anyone who questioned it was bonkers. Of course, the science is shaky at best, but if you can marginalize your opposition, then you have the bully pulpit.

Ham

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Do you believe yet?

Quoted emails regarding peer reviewed journals:





Reading stuff like that makes me want to cockpunch these "scientists".

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Hold my beer and watch this...

This.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

My biggest issue with peer evaluation is, that it is easy to get someone to agree with you on something, not matter what you write. The best way to evaluate someone's work is hand it to someone who believes the exact opposite, and have them come up with viable evidence against your case, and see which point of view holds more water.

All in all, it's laughable to think that global warming is entirely a hoax, however, I've never felt like it was an immediate threat to the planet, and I've always felt that any warming isn't going to happen over night, and there is plenty of time to come up with an "exit" strategy to ensure our coastal regions aren't destroyed by it.

The new evidence is a bit enlightening, but not overly surprising either.

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"She's like plan C after an 18 pack"

Squanto 7/27/2010

No. In "real science" it's not that easy.
Case in point: Cold Fusion

It was absolutely destroyed by peer review to an extent that some scientists still don't believe it works even though today it's easily reproducible.

If you or I were to invent a new scientific process in any field...let's say pharmaceuticals. We would publish it and independent scientists from around the world would then attempt to exactly reproduce our results.

That's not what's happening here. Here we have the scientists getting together before-hand...coming up with a "consensus", blocking out all the outlying and contradictory results, and publishing it as peer reviewed truth.

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Hold my beer and watch this...