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acrossthelines
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:05 am 
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Wozniak wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
if you killed someone, why wouldnt you the murder weapon to, say a river, and throw the son of a bitch in the middle of it?

cause if you've ever watch CSI you know that they will find any weapon in any body of water no matter what and bodies always get found. even if you bury the feet in concrete and then drop them in. a hair will float up and then your busted.

afterwards you'll have some retarded detective say "well...i guess their plans are sunk"


:lol: Exactly.

People on those shows are so stupid, though, really. If you kill someone, and it's somebody you have come in contact with before, immediately burn all the clothing you were wearing and dump the ashes in a lake. Don't keep them in your closet unwashed or toss them into your laundry hamper. Donate the shoes you were wearing to Goodwill or something, or burn them and dump the ashes along with your clothing. Thoroughly bleach the murder weapon before going on vacation hiking the Appalachian Trail or whatever and burying it in an extremely remote location that is nowhere near where you live, if it can't be destroyed. Don't throw it into a dumpster two blocks from where the crime was committed or give it to a friend or keep it locked in a cabinet at home. And wear gloves, for pete's sake.

If you're a serial killer and it's somebody random, just don't take any souvenirs, and make sure you never break a law outside of committing murder. Don't want them to have your DNA on file.

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MsRussellBeebe
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:00 pm 
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acrossthelines wrote:
Wozniak wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
if you killed someone, why wouldnt you the murder weapon to, say a river, and throw the son of a bitch in the middle of it?

cause if you've ever watch CSI you know that they will find any weapon in any body of water no matter what and bodies always get found. even if you bury the feet in concrete and then drop them in. a hair will float up and then your busted.

afterwards you'll have some retarded detective say "well...i guess their plans are sunk"


:lol: Exactly.

People on those shows are so stupid, though, really. If you kill someone, and it's somebody you have come in contact with before, immediately burn all the clothing you were wearing and dump the ashes in a lake. Don't keep them in your closet unwashed or toss them into your laundry hamper. Donate the shoes you were wearing to Goodwill or something, or burn them and dump the ashes along with your clothing. Thoroughly bleach the murder weapon before going on vacation hiking the Appalachian Trail or whatever and burying it in an extremely remote location that is nowhere near where you live, if it can't be destroyed. Don't throw it into a dumpster two blocks from where the crime was committed or give it to a friend or keep it locked in a cabinet at home. And wear gloves, for pete's sake.

If you're a serial killer and it's somebody random, just don't take any souvenirs, and make sure you never break a law outside of committing murder. Don't want them to have your DNA on file.

I'm writing that shit down, ATL.....just in case. ;)

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:36 pm 
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Verdict at 6PM tonight.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/ita ... index.html

Quote:
A verdict is expected Friday night in an Italian court in the murder trial of American student Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

Knox and Sollecito are charged with murder and sexual violence in the November 2007 stabbing death of Meredith Kercher. Knox and Kercher, a British exchange student, were roommates. A third suspect was found guilty in a separate trial and is appealing.

The verdict is expected to be announced at 6 p.m. ET or soon after, two lawyers associated with the case said.

Back home in West Seattle, Washington, Knox's aunt Janet Huff and other family members are anxiously awaiting word of the verdict.

"I can't eat, I'm just too nervous," Huff told CNN. "You don't know when it's going to come. It could be any minute, it could be tomorrow. I'm just scared to death. At the same time, we're really hopeful and really glad that it's over. We just hope it's over for good."

"All we can do is hope for the best," Chris Mellas, Knox's stepfather, told CNN in court.

On Thursday, Knox took the stand for a third time in the Perugia courtroom, telling jurors that she is not a "killer" who stabbed her former roommate.

"They say that I am calm. I am not calm," Knox said in Italian. "I fear to lose myself, to have the mask of the killer forced upon me. I fear to be defined as someone I am not."

Knox and Sollecito were arrested shortly after the November 2007 slaying.

"After years of prison, I confess that I feel sad and frustrated," Knox said. "In front of you, I feel vulnerable, but I am confident of what I know. My lawyers, my family and my friends save my life every day.

"I also thank the prosecutor because they are doing their work, even though they do not understand, and because they are trying to bring justice to a person who was taken from this world."

Knox previously testified in June, when she said she was not home at the time of the slaying.

Sollecito also testified Thursday.

"I am not a violent person," he said. "I've not killed Meredith. I was not at the scene of the crime. Everyday I hope that the guilty one confesses. I ask you to give me back my life," he said.

Sollecito did not face any questioning.

Before his testimony, prosecutor Manuela Comodi offered a rebuttal to defense claims of sloppy evidence-gathering at the crime scene. She focused on the technical aspects of the evidence against Knox and Sollecito and questioned the forensic arguments used by the defense. She also defended the investigators, calling them professionals who stayed out of the media show surrounding the case.

Comodi rejected allegations that Sollecito's DNA found on a bra belonging to Kercher could have been contaminated. Other than a cigarette butt in the kitchen with Sollecito's DNA on it, she said, investigators did not find his DNA anywhere else in the house. The bra, the prosecutor said, was found in the bedroom where Kercher was killed. Forensics investigators wore gloves when retrieving the bra, Comodi said.

That proves, she said, that Sollecito was at the crime scene when the slaying took place.

Sollecito also left other traces of having been in the house, including footprints, she said. Some of the footprints were found in the bathroom, Comodi said.

On Wednesday, a defense lawyer for Knox made an impassioned plea to the jury.

"We suffer at the memory of Meredith. But we look at the future of Amanda," Luciano Ghirga said in his defense summation.

"Meredith was my friend," he quoted Knox as saying, rejecting the notion that the American student hated her roommate.

Prosecutors say Kercher died during a twisted sex game in which Knox taunted Kercher while Sollecito and acquaintance Rudy Guede sexually assaulted her.

The prosecution says a knife found in Sollecito's house had Knox's DNA on the handle and Kercher's on the blade, among other pieces of evidence.

See the evidence against Knox and Sollecito

But Ghirga rejected the accusations against Knox.

He attacked the way police and prosecutors had treated the defendant.

Ghirga concluded an emotional oration -- sobbing as he came to the end -- by asking the judge and jury to acquit Knox, because her mother asked him to request it, because her family asked it.

Knox's father, Curt, said Wednesday she had been a victim of "character assassination."

Members of Kercher's family have declined repeated CNN requests for comment.

But prosecutor Giuliano Mignini accused the defense of "lynching" the Italian police who worked on the case.

He defended the work of the police and the credibility of the prosecution witnesses as he responded to Ghirga's arguments Wednesday.

And he called again for life sentences for Knox and Sollecito if they are found guilty. Italy does not have the death penalty.

The jury is expected to begin deliberations Friday, after the prosecution completes its summary.

Another Knox attorney on Tuesday said the prosecution's theory doesn't fit the facts of the case and there is not sufficient evidence to find Knox guilty.

Calling Knox a victim, Carlo della Vedova said police rushed to judgment, leaving Knox to fend off a myriad of false media reports regarding the crime.

The lawyer showed photos published in the media, purportedly showing the crime scene, that weren't authentic, and said false allegations and rumors about Knox's character created a bias from the start.

Della Vedova also questioned the change in what prosecutor Mignini said was the motive for the killing.

In preliminary hearings Mignini argued Knox, Sollecito and Guede slashed Kercher's throat during a sexual misadventure as the two men vied for Knox's attention. In recent days, Mignini has focused more on what he says was a hatred between the two roommates.

Defense lawyers have staunchly disagreed, claiming the two women were friends.

Ghirga said they had gone to a chocolate festival together days before Kercher was killed.

The defense has argued that Guede, who was convicted in a separate fast-track trial and is appealing his conviction, was the sole killer. The defense has said there is no evidence tying the three suspects together or proving they planned Kercher's murder.

Della Vedova also focused during closing arguments on the lack of evidence tying Knox to the crime scene.

As defense lawyers have throughout the trial, he cast doubt on DNA evidence prosecutors claim shows Knox's DNA on a knife. The defense has claimed the knife doesn't match Kercher's wounds or an imprint of a knife left on a bedsheet. They also claimed the DNA sample is too small to be conclusive.

During the first day of closing arguments for Knox's lawyers, della Vedova stressed to the eight-member jury that they should also keep church law in mind. He told the jury they needed to be "morally certain of their decision."

"If you have the minimum of doubts, you must absolve this young girl -- a girl that is merely 22 years old," he said.

Knox and Sollecito have been jailed for more than two years. The trial began in January in Perugia, a university town about 115 miles (185 kilometers) north of Rome.

CNN's Paula Newton in Italy and Mallory Simon in Atlanta contributed to this report.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:15 pm 
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http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/ita ... index.html

I'm kind of surprised.

Evidence wise, it seemed difficult to prove she was guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Then again I'm not surprised.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:30 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Evidence wise, it seemed difficult to prove she was guilty beyond reasonable doubt.


The burden of proof of 'beyond reasonable doubt' for criminal offenses in Italy is actually considered to be higher than in the US legal system. That being said, I couldn't get a read on this case. I think her changing initial stories worked against her, and that the jury considered her credibility to be so low that they could look past the chain of evidence irregularities.


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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:32 pm 
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Didn't I hear they used DNA evidence that wouldn't even be admissible here in the US?

Well, I hope she has appeals lined up...too bad the Italian legal system takes 6 month off a year...that could take decades.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Evidence wise, it seemed difficult to prove she was guilty beyond reasonable doubt.


The burden of proof of 'beyond reasonable doubt' for criminal offenses in Italy is actually considered to be higher than in the US legal system. That being said, I couldn't get a read on this case. I think her changing initial stories worked against her, and that the jury considered her credibility to be so low that they could look past the chain of evidence irregularities.


True, but you have to keep in mind that those who interrogated this girl kept her awake and beat her in jail. At that point, she'll say anything just to get the beatings to stop.

The other thing is, they didn't find a single piece of her hair or a fingernail or anything of hers in the room.

Girls have long hair falling out all the time. During a murder, wouldn't you expect it to get pulled on at least once?

I'm not saying she's innocent, because (I know it has absolutely zero bearing, and I'll probably be criticized for saying it) she looks like a crazy girl. She looks like she's capable of doing what she's been accused of.

But that doesn't mean that she's done it. The evidence doesn't add up. It's a pretty weak case against, in my opinion.

EDIT: Yes Cross. You heard right. Not one piece of the DNA evidence would be relevant here in the US, as the sample sizes were so small, that they could have come from day to day use.

The knife was in her house for crying out loud. Wouldn't it make sense for her DNA to be on it?

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Squanto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:52 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
Didn't I hear they used DNA evidence that wouldn't even be admissible here in the US?


Pretty much.

The DNA evidence on the knife matched Knox, however the defense provided expert testimony that said the knife in evidence was not the actual murder weapon, because it didn't match the wounds on the deceased. They also provided an expert that said there was not enough DNA on the knife to say with certainty who's it was. The shape of the knife also didn't match up with the stains on the sheets that it was found laying on.

The other DNA evidence was from a bra the deceased was wearing that contained DNA from the other accused in the case. However, that bra was not collected as evidence for some 6 weeks after the murder. The defense argued against it on chain of evidence grounds.

It looks like a classic railroad job to me. The crime scene was handled poorly. After Knox's confession was thrown out (rightfully), the 3rd of the accused suddenly flipped on the other two, and got fast-tracked with a reduced sentence. Forensic scientists FOR THE PROSECUTION changed their minds after examining new evidence found in the 3rd guy's trial. And, according to CNN:

[quote]Few of the eight jurors looked at her. Six of the jurors were wearing red, white and green sashes -- the colors of Italy's flag.[/quote]

Sounds like the jury said 'Fuck this scumbag American, and that was that. In LA this case would have been thrown out in 20 minutes. :)


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Yhoshi
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:17 pm 
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I can't understand the US Media.
the beautiful, American girl can't be quilty. so ridiculous.

the police found too much to let her free.

If u read the articles about this case in the online newspapers and so on, u will find a touch of racism.
There are so many people getting killed (in some states ) or arrested for their life for less.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Yhoshi wrote:
I can't understand the US Media.
the beautiful, American girl can't be quilty. so ridiculous.

the police found too much to let her free.

If u read the articles about this case in the online newspapers and so on, u will find a touch of racism.
There are so many people getting killed (in some states ) or arrested for their life for less.


I disagree Yoshi. The point is, a lot of the evidence used to convict her wouldn't have even been applicable in the US justice system.

I'm not saying she's innocent, because I think she's fully capable of her conviction.

That said, the defense had a very strong case against the prosecution.

Knox was chastised for giving conflicting stories, despite claims that she was beaten and threatened by the police.

Meanwhile, the police somehow got off the hook for changing the details of their case on more than one occasion, in terms of the motives they came up with, and the exact story of how the young woman was murdered.

The murder weapon doesn't match up with the wounds. A US forensic specialist deduced that it was much more likely that one man murdered rather than a team of 3.

It's a very iffy case.

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Yhoshi
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:59 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
I can't understand the US Media.
the beautiful, American girl can't be quilty. so ridiculous.

the police found too much to let her free.

If u read the articles about this case in the online newspapers and so on, u will find a touch of racism.
There are so many people getting killed (in some states ) or arrested for their life for less.


I disagree Yoshi. The point is, a lot of the evidence used to convict her wouldn't have even been applicable in the US justice system.

I'm not saying she's innocent, because I think she's fully capable of her conviction.

That said, the defense had a very strong case against the prosecution.

Knox was chastised for giving conflicting stories, despite claims that she was beaten and threatened by the police.

Meanwhile, the police somehow got off the hook for changing the details of their case on more than one occasion, in terms of the motives they came up with, and the exact story of how the young woman was murdered.

The murder weapon doesn't match up with the wounds. A US forensic specialist deduced that it was much more likely that one man murdered rather than a team of 3.

It's a very iffy case.


it's a very difficult case, but it s not right that Tv station influence people with their point of view. It dont think the huge attention was good for the case and maybe not good for Amanda.

maybe Amanda tried to use the attention,.....
but There was a lot of pressure on the italian ............ (forgot the word)

""A US forensic specialist deduced that it was much more likely that one man murdered rather than a team of 3."" not an objective specialist. in addition if one man can murder her, a team of 3 can do it too. we don t know what happened.

the Justice systems are different. the foreign system isn't automatically the worse.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Yhoshi wrote:
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
I can't understand the US Media.
the beautiful, American girl can't be quilty. so ridiculous.

the police found too much to let her free.

If u read the articles about this case in the online newspapers and so on, u will find a touch of racism.
There are so many people getting killed (in some states ) or arrested for their life for less.


I disagree Yoshi. The point is, a lot of the evidence used to convict her wouldn't have even been applicable in the US justice system.

I'm not saying she's innocent, because I think she's fully capable of her conviction.

That said, the defense had a very strong case against the prosecution.

Knox was chastised for giving conflicting stories, despite claims that she was beaten and threatened by the police.

Meanwhile, the police somehow got off the hook for changing the details of their case on more than one occasion, in terms of the motives they came up with, and the exact story of how the young woman was murdered.

The murder weapon doesn't match up with the wounds. A US forensic specialist deduced that it was much more likely that one man murdered rather than a team of 3.

It's a very iffy case.


it's a very difficult case, but it s not right that Tv station influence people with their point of view. It dont think the huge attention was good for the case and maybe not good for Amanda.

maybe Amanda tried to use the attention,.....
but There was a lot of pressure on the italian ............ (forgot the word)

""A US forensic specialist deduced that it was much more likely that one man murdered rather than a team of 3."" not an objective specialist. in addition if one man can murder her, a team of 3 can do it too. we don t know what happened.


I disagree with your opinions on the American media though.

They weren't favoring Amanda Knox. They reported the "foxy knoxy" stories just as much as BBC did.

You are absolutely correct, in saying that the media was pretty detrimental to her case.

On another note, just because the specialist was American doesn't mean he wasn't objective.

Personally, I wouldn't be favorable to a murderer returning to my country without serving some time.

It wasn't a "theory" that he deduced. He came to the conclusion based on the autopsy and her injuries that it was highly unlikely that it was anything more than a 1 man job.

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Yhoshi
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:20 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
I can't understand the US Media.
the beautiful, American girl can't be quilty. so ridiculous.

the police found too much to let her free.

If u read the articles about this case in the online newspapers and so on, u will find a touch of racism.
There are so many people getting killed (in some states ) or arrested for their life for less.


I disagree Yoshi. The point is, a lot of the evidence used to convict her wouldn't have even been applicable in the US justice system.

I'm not saying she's innocent, because I think she's fully capable of her conviction.

That said, the defense had a very strong case against the prosecution.

Knox was chastised for giving conflicting stories, despite claims that she was beaten and threatened by the police.

Meanwhile, the police somehow got off the hook for changing the details of their case on more than one occasion, in terms of the motives they came up with, and the exact story of how the young woman was murdered.

The murder weapon doesn't match up with the wounds. A US forensic specialist deduced that it was much more likely that one man murdered rather than a team of 3.

It's a very iffy case.


it's a very difficult case, but it s not right that Tv station influence people with their point of view. It dont think the huge attention was good for the case and maybe not good for Amanda.

maybe Amanda tried to use the attention,.....
but There was a lot of pressure on the italian ............ (forgot the word)

""A US forensic specialist deduced that it was much more likely that one man murdered rather than a team of 3."" not an objective specialist. in addition if one man can murder her, a team of 3 can do it too. we don t know what happened.


I disagree with your opinions on the American media though.

They weren't favoring Amanda Knox. They reported the "foxy knoxy" stories just as much as BBC did.

You are absolutely correct, in saying that the media was pretty detrimental to her case.

On another note, just because the specialist was American doesn't mean he wasn't objective.

Personally, I wouldn't be favorable to a murderer returning to my country without serving some time.

It wasn't a "theory" that he deduced. He came to the conclusion based on the autopsy and her injuries that it was highly unlikely that it was anything more than a 1 man job.



On another note, just because the specialist was American doesn't mean he wasn't objective.
-Yes- but it s quite plausible. If anything isn't clear, u can say so or so... who wanted him to have a look?

fortunately we both dont have to make this decision ;)

PS: @ media in Austria the case wasn't such a big topic. in Germany www.bild.de "Engel mit Eisaugen"
it certainly depends on the quality of the paper or page ;)

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