To the condom/Plan B argument...it all goes back to when a new "life" begins. Scientifically, (and I may be wrong), does the zygote formed at contraception not have different DNA than the parent? If so, then it is a new life (some would argue it is a parasite, which I wouldn't argue against ) . Sometimes though, birth controls fail, condoms break, hormones aren't shoved out of whack as expected, etc...and an "oopsies" happens. What then?

_________________

Science still can't tell us when life begins...that's the crux of the problem.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

_________________
"Go out and run 'em."
- Lindy Ruff, 23 Feb. 2007

Man you've got that right....
That's why I specified science doesn't have the answer. It's all based on an individuals faith or belief system and arguing those things can get ugly quickly.

Although I suppose I appreciate the passion behind the entire abortion debate and politics. We are talking about life and death after all.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

i, in following with the Church's teachings, oppose any and all artifical forms of birth control

also, zilla, a question from you i never answer

you posed the question, if i remember correctly, if a man shoots and kills a pregnant woman, should he be charged with two counts of murder

the answer is yes, he should be

_________________
PSA: I am an overly sarcastic person. If you take me at my word, then i will most likely anger and offend you.

I think maybe murder is a bad word, I'll explain. Murder is illegal because it's something you wouldn't want done to you. Society said, "let's make that a severe crime, and penalize it harshly". I think that's the general thingy there. Abortion isn't "something you wouldn't want done to you" because you weren't even born yet. While I consider killing a baby to be the most heinous of all murders, aborting an embryo just isn't murder, imho of course. The topic may be getting too close to the abortion discussion though. If it gets too close, I guess the mods will mod though.

Well, the definition of murder comes into play in this subject. Murder is the killing of another human being with malice aforethought.

If you believe that a human being starts to exist at conception, you probably believe abortion is murder.

If you believe that a human being starts to exist at birth, you probably don't.

I agree that we should probably turn the subject away from the sides of the abortion debate, as in this format it's bound to not end well.

I believe this is erroneous, but I'd have to check the Catechism. I'm fairly certain the Catholic Church is not against birth control because they believe sperm to be a person. Two separate topics.

Ham

_________________
Do you believe yet?

Uhm, I'm pretty sure the Pope decreed that the only acceptable use of contraceptives (more specifically, condoms) was to combat the spread of AIDS and that's it. And we all know the guy in the big "dunce" cap is the dude who makes the rules.

So, yea, the Church is against birth control.

_________________
mechaphil

No, I didn't say the Catholic Church wasn't against birth control. I know they are. I'm saying their reasoning is NOT along the lines of a sperm being a person. Didn't make it too clear in my original statement.

Ham

_________________
Do you believe yet?

Ohhhhh, yea I read that wrong. My bads.

_________________
mechaphil

If only that were true.


Condoms apparently makes aids worse! We should tell people to ignore their natural human urges and discourage education.

It's disgusting to see how the pope is responsible for so many deaths. Telling people not to use condoms... crazy

_________________
When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

question, do you think for yourself ever when making decisions or just turn to your book?

it's a legitimate question, don't freak out people

_________________
When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

_________________
"Go out and run 'em."
- Lindy Ruff, 23 Feb. 2007

To be honest, no one really knew the extent of the holocaust until WWII was almost over.

EDIT: I'm not defending anything...just saying it was a shock to everyone when it was discovered...it's not like the Catholic church said "go ahead and kill all those Jews".

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...

My take on it is fairly simple.

The actual events of what really happened in the lives of those figures talked about in religious texts have been clouded by 2000+ years of history. Nobody now can accurately say what those figures actually said, let along try and decide what they MEANT.

To me, it's disingenuous for any church to interpret these two thousand year old writings that have been translated and retranslated thousands of times to make hard rules and say they're religious canon.

I voted yes. I am prochoice, however, if I was in the position of having to decide I would choose everytime to keep it. I do think that abortions should be funded. I would rather pay for a procedure now than have to pay for welfare, food stamps and the other tax payers dollars that go to people who have kids and don't have the means or ambition to take care of them. I don't know the numbers or anything, but I would guess the majority of people who get abortions or who would have gotten one if the could have afforded it, are people who don't deserve or are unable to provide for a child.

_________________
We were biting this morning. We were biting this morning.

Actually, the writings are 1800-900 years old, and the history is 2000 years old, not to mention they have been interpreted and edited a few thousand times over the 1900 years. That leaves 100 years of word of mouth in an age of idiocy. This doesn't seem to bother anyone of belief though. Why?, because it's all about believing anyways. Sort of like I did with Santa Claus for a few years. Sorry if this is taken wrong by some people, but I always deal with things rationally. It's how "I" cope. If "you" choose to cope through faith, fine. I have no problem with that, so please don't have a problem with me for mine.

Also, churches aren't even 1900 years old. They were started a few hundred years after the writings.