Nothing against you Slesh, I respect your opinion but I'm getting tired of the Kovalchuk thing. I would love to see him in the blue and gold but we will never see him here. He is asking for WAAAAAAAAAY to much money for this team to afford.

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It's the opposite side of the coin now.

The problems that the team had three years ago are the opposites of what they have now; their strengths then are their current weaknesses, and vice versa.

I have nothing to add because it's all already been covered, and giving my $0.02 would be redundant, but I am amused by this discussion because what we have now is precisely what the team needed more of a few years ago to be a true contender, even though they were first in the league, but they've entirely forgotten what made them first to begin with.

I am glad that Miller called them out for that performance, a culmination of his building frustration (and all of ours) at that game and the previous two. Pathetic, pathetic efforts. I'm sure that finally letting in not one or two but three goals before the end of the first period, that were not in any way due to a slowness or lack of agility or miscalculation on his part, was infuriating to him.

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Miles to go before I sleep

‎"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation."
-Khalil Gibran

Actually, the three goals were early in the 2nd period. They continued to play crappy into the 2nd period until they were down 0-3.

Oh, I thought it was the first because I didn't start watching until the second. I forgot that. Almost always miss the first periods of games.

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Miles to go before I sleep

‎"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation."
-Khalil Gibran

You haven't missed a thing for two weeks then.

And yet they continue to win.

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Wheelhouse

Yeah. "They" continue to win.

But, unfortunately it has precious little to do with our best-paid players.

What's your point? That Connolly, Roy, Pominville, Vanek, et al. get a pass, because others are doing their jobs for them?

I not think so. We are winning DESPITE these fuckers. And that's what angers me.

and what happens when miller has an off night, or is injured for a long strech

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PSA: I am an overly sarcastic person. If you take me at my word, then i will most likely anger and offend you.

Please. I studiously avoided even contemplating that possibility.

This team would be so fucked.

I had wanted to mention earlier how a "defensive" team like New Jersey managed to lose Marty Brodeur for four months, and still made Kevin Weekes and Scott Clemmenson look solid.

This would not happen with the Sabres. It would be an utter meltdown, rife with "shoulda" and "coulda" excuses, like last season.

The money HAS to play like money. Or, else they need gone.

It's funny you say this. If you have the game DVR'd, then watch the end again. I only saw it live, but I was actually looking for each players reactions. Rivet was the happiest I've ever seen him. He stood at the door, and showed mad love as everyone went off. Miller was the last guy off the ice, and kind of went in by himself real quietly. I wondered WTF was that about, and now I know. It's what humble pie-hole looks like.

If he wants his team to be better, he better tell his coach to let them get offensive sooner. This gets more and more obvious by the day. The talent is under-utilized. Isn't this much more feasible than all of our skilled players(top 6 discussion) suck and are lazy?


...and holy shit is this thread all over the place. Miller doesn't wear the C, but I don't feel he is "trumping" Craig either. I think w/o guys like Rivet, Miller, Gaustad, and Grier we'd be back in 8-10th place. Rivet is a good captain, and Miller is a A w/o the "A". You tell me what's different about this team, besides Myers, than leadership?? Maybe Butler, but to say we're mad good cause of Butler? Doubt that holds up.

I'm not even going to try and argue that because the team would be fucked if Miller got a bad injury that kept him off the ice for a few weeks. But something definitely needs to be said about Lalime, his ability to keep us in games and the teams play infront of him. He came in cold, the team down 3 or so early in the second and kept the team afloat against the freakin Pens. That's damn near impossible for any goalie, no less a backup with rust building up with every game Miller starts.

Lalime couldn't carry us single handedly to the playoffs like Miller might be able to *knock on wood* if he were our starter, no chance in hell, but I think we might be able to survive a bit without him. Or maybe a couple good games have left me a bit too optimistic lol.

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Hasn't it been stated even before this season and even last year that Miller was one of the leaders on this team to begin with? So its good that he gives the riot act to his teammates, so long as they don't perceive it as him "blaming" them for letting in goals.

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"...they came down into the stands and asked if I knew how to do play by play. I said...No. But. I'll take a shot at it if you want".- Rick Jeanneret

Not really sure where you get off saying that they're getting a free pass, because if you look at all the Sabres wins this season, more than 85% of them had members of our top 6 on the score sheet.

Win 1 against the Coyotes:
MacArthur, Roy, and Vanek all on the stat sheet with points. Roy had 2.

Win 3 against the Red Wings:
Stafford, Pominville, Vanek, Roy, and MacArthur all had points. Roy had 3.

Win 4 against the Islanders:
Stafford, MacArthur, Connolly, and Pominville registered points.

Win 5 against the Panthers:
Pominville, Connolly, Roy, Vanek, and Stafford registered points.

Win 6 against the Lightning:
Stafford and Roy registered points.

Win 7 over the Devils:
MacArthur, Pominville, and Connolly all registered points.

Win 8 Over the Leafs:
Stafford, Vanek, Connolly, Pominville, and Roy all register points.

So in the first month of the NHL season, the top 6 registered points in 7 out of 8 of our wins.

I could go on and on right through the rest of the schedule, but this takes a long time to do.

Winning in spite of the top six? Dead wrong.

Winning because of a solid team effort that includes very valuable and important contributions from the top 6.

They aren't going to set the league on fire with stats, but they're going to score the goals we need to win games, and they're going to shut down the best teams in the NHL.

I know how difficult it is for some of you to give any praise to the job they do because you want scoring leaders, but there's a lot of different ways to win hockey games, and just because they aren't torching goaltenders doesn't mean they'll be an ineffective playoff team.

Do you understand how ridiculous you sound when you suggest that our top 2 lines suck and the only reason we're winning games is because they're being carried by the bottom two and Miller?

If that were truly the case, we'd be at the bottom with Toronto right now.

EDIT:

I'll continue it without mentioning names.

Every single win in November had statistical contributions in the form of goals and assists from 2 or more members of our top 6.

Only 1 of our wins in November had less than 3 of our top six on the score sheet.

In addition, they regularly made the 3 stars of the game, often the 1st star.

Shall I go to December?

All 9 wins in December had 2 or more members from the top 6 on the score sheet.

How does January look so far? 2 wins, 2 games with contributions from the top 6 on the score sheet.

So essentially, the Sabres are tied for 4th in the NHL with wins, and out of all the wins the Sabres have collected this season, there has only been 1 game where the top 6 have been held off the score sheet.

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Wheelhouse

I think what peoples panties are all tied up about, is that these players aren't torching up goaltenders... but they also aren't giving up life and limb to keep the puck out of their own net.

So the players aren't tearing up goaltenders, and they aren't playing a particularly astounding, blood-sweat-and-tears defensive game. Yet they're our highest paid players, and of the forwards are often given plenty of time on the ice. They're getting goals and assists, and in the end that's getting the job done, but I guess people expect them to excel at something and not scrape at the bare minimum to win a game.

Personally though, as long as we win, I'm happy. If they elevate their game to the bare minimum to make the playoffs and to be effective and win games come playoff time, we'll all be happy. But that involves elevating their games.

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Oh come on PSP. You could say the same and better for almost every other team in the league. Of course SOME members of the top six will be on the score sheet almost every night. That doesn't prove a thing. Watching the games it is clear that the top six are not producing what they could. Producing enough? Most nights, but that's not because the top six are doing anything extra to shut teams down.

Miller is their saving grace, but come playoffs there will have to be better production from the top six in order to beat equally tough defensive teams with very good goaltending. Connolly and Stafford, Pominville now and MacArthur (-10 MacArthur) have taken more than a few turns disappearing, not playing the system, playing too fancy, and flat out not contributing. This is beyond debate no matter what stats you throw out there.

Keeping the puck out is what they do best.

The only player on the top 6 with a negative +/- is Clark MacArthur.

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Wheelhouse

Yep, he was on the 4th line yesterday too.

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"...they came down into the stands and asked if I knew how to do play by play. I said...No. But. I'll take a shot at it if you want".- Rick Jeanneret

Mac is the only forward, period, that has a minus rating.

Could you? Because there aren't many teams in the NHL right now that are better than the Sabres.



Prove it.

You are blindly trashing them without presenting any factual evidence.

Here are some facts for you.

The Sabres are 2nd in the Eastern conference. They are one of the most winningest teams in the NHL.

In 25 out of 26 of those wins, as I stated above, the top 6 have statistically contributed.

They have one of the best records in the NHL in 1 goal games. All but 1 of our top 6 have positive +/- ratings.

They back check and skate their arses off to win games. They block shots, and they have one of the best penalty kills in the NHL.

Call me a cheerleader all you want, but at the end of the day, this team is winning thanks largely in part to the job those guys are doing out on the ice.

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Wheelhouse

Uh, Buffalo is 20th in scoring, and their two best point getters are Roy and Connolly, who are 57th and 58th on the league ranking. So it doesn't take a genius to figure out that most other teams are getting regular contributions from their top six as much or better than Buffalo. That is the nature of top six forwards - to get points on a regular basis, especially from PP time.

You're starting to be ridiculous again...getting all defensive over what is, at least from me, level headed observations and fair criticism. Miller is the primary reason for our record right now, plain and simple. Yes the team has done a better job controlling the puck, eliminating the bonehead breakdowns that left Miller hanging out to dry the last two seasons. All this is good, but the top six have NOT done anything extra special so far. They've all had turns taking criticism and benchings from Ruff. How do you explain that???

Once again, you percieve fair criticism as overblown hatred toward certain players or the team in general. Take a breath, drop the pom poms, and step away from the keyboard until you can figure out the difference.