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Should Royal Caribbean continue docking in Haiti?
No, it is obscene to use the island as a vacation spot while in the midst of so much tragedy 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Yes, it helps the local people at a time when they need it most 36%  36%  [ 5 ]
No opinion - it is too terrible to even think about it 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Other (explain) 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 14
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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:51 am 
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Here's a good read from Time, it discusses the potential silver lining, etc...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100120/w ... 4195502300

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Captain Pants
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:47 pm 
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I feel it should 100% be allowed to happen. I wouldn't want to go to haiti to vacation, especially now, but there should be no reason that the ships aren't allowed to dock on an area that they've previously negotiated a deal for.

It's a business decision -- yes, but the guilt should be rested on the passengers not the drivers

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:55 pm 
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I don't think it's worth a damn what we think about it.
What do the Haitians think about it?

If it helps them at all and they don't mind, where's the harm?

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Sk8haggard9
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Personally, I would not be on that ship. I would feel like I was being disrespectful, but thats just how I am. I overthink things too much. The normal side of me, however, says that its just a business and in the long run it has to help the economy of Haiti.


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nnyfan
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:17 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
The main economic benefit to Haiti from the cruise ships is people that get off the ship and spend money in the local economy.

These folks are not pumping money into the local economy. They are spending money on a guarded peninsula that is being leased from Haiti. Any money being spent there is going right back into Royal Caribbean's pockets.

This is no different than if ships were docking at private resorts in Southern Louisiana after Katrina in my eyes. I guess if you can deal with vacationing a few short miles from where thousands of people have died in the preceding days, good for you. I can't.

NYIntensity wrote:
Not to say that many of them aren't homeless by choice, but we do a LOT for the rest of the world, and we don't get a whole lot of return on that work.


In my opinion, it shouldn't be about what you get out of it.


Squanto, I was on the side of it helping the economy at a time when they are really needing it the most and helping them come to some sort of normalcy after such a hellish week. Sort of like the first Yankees game after 911. BUT, if its true that the peninsula that is providing this stopover is truly owned by Royal Caribbean, that that is horrible. Reroute the trip to somewhere else, for the love of God. Its like they should toot the horn and yell, 'sucks to be you, haiti!'

But, if they are benefitting in any way, the Hatians, then I think it should continue. Otherwise, its just furthering the arrogant reputation of us Amaricans.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Per the linked article, Royal Caribbean is docking their cruises at Labadee, Haiti.

According to Wikipedia, emphasis added:

Quote:
Labadee (also Labadie) is a port located on the northern coast of Haiti. It is a private resort leased to Royal Caribbean International. Royal Caribbean International has contributed the largest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti since 1986, employing 300 locals, allowing another 200 to sell their wares on the premises, and paying the Haitian government US$6 per tourist.[1]

The resort is completely tourist-oriented, and is guarded by a private security force. The site is fenced off from the surrounding area, and passengers are not allowed to leave the property. It is also blocked off from the remainder of Haiti by mountains[2]. A controlled group of Haitian merchants are given sole rights to sell their merchandise and establish their businesses in the resort. Although sometimes described as an island in advertisements, it is actually a peninsula contiguous with the island of Hispaniola. The cruise ship moors to the pier at Labadee capable of servicing the Oasis class ships, which was completed in late 2009.[3]


While you're correct that there is still some economic benefit to the cruises stopping there, I would say that it seems fairly small considering the paltry sum the Haitian government actually gets, and the controlled access to the area for vendors. The 300 locals that are employed are clearly helped, but in the big picture, it's not much. Those that need the help most right now are farther south in the capital region.


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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:38 pm 
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I think this statement should be strongly considered
Quote:
Royal Caribbean International has contributed the largest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti since 1986

1 single corporation has been providing the island the most tourist revenue.

That's the only viable future of a place like Haiti...tourism.
Look at the Dominican republic.

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acrossthelines
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:59 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
Squanto wrote:
In my opinion, it shouldn't be about what you get out of it.

Then why don't you work for free? Show up for work, but don't bill your hours, do it out of the kindness of your heart. And don't do it for a day or two. do it over then next, oh, 100 years.

Money makes the world go 'round; it puts food in bellies and roofs over heads. There's going to be a silver lining to this disaster, we just have to wait for it.

Maybe I'm so polarized because I'm sick of hearing "Why aren't you here to help me? Where is our help? Where are you?" I'm a firm believer in if you need help, you need to be willing to help yourself, and put in 10x more work than anyone helping you.

If you re-read my post (and I'm not trying to be argumentative with you personally Squanto), you'll see (at least their statement says)

Quote:
100% of the company's net revenue from the destination will be contributed to the relief effort



Regarding circumstances in which American citizens and the US government donate monetary funds and bodily help to other nations and areas needing it after natural disasters, the amount of work that those who live in those areas do does not make a difference. They do work, and they work hard, but their work is simply to survive, not to afford houses and vehicles and other large purchases that would aid their economies to the point where their nations would be able to help us if ever we were to need it. The nations that we bring aid to in these circumstances do not help us when we are in need because they cannot (and this country has never experienced anything of that scope, anyway, not anything even close to it, to say the absolute least).

Haiti does not have any of the resources necessary to even begin "recovering" from this on its own, regardless of how hard its citizens work. We do. Our homeless eat. They are routinely given food, places to sleep, blankets, hats, gloves, etc. by people who desire to help them. Theirs don't, and they receive nothing, because there isn't anyone who has the ability to help them. To compare the circumstances in Haiti and other nations with the circumstances in America and not desire to help those people because, "hey, we have homeless, too, and we're in debt to top it off" does not make any sense to me.

Edit:
I think we just look at it from fundamentally different viewpoints, though. You see barriers, acknowledge nations and self-interest. I see just human beings helping other human beings, without impediment and without care for self.

Still, even acknowledging that, I still find that comparing the situation in Haiti and past circumstances in other devastated areas that we have aided to our national debt and our own poverty just doesn't make any sense, because the things are in completely different universes.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:50 pm 
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acrossthelines wrote:

Regarding circumstances in which American citizens and the US government donate monetary funds and bodily help to other nations and areas needing it after natural disasters, the amount of work that those who live in those areas do does not make a difference. They do work, and they work hard, but their work is simply to survive, not to afford houses and vehicles and other large purchases that would aid their economies to the point where their nations would be able to help us if ever we were to need it. The nations that we bring aid to in these circumstances do not help us when we are in need because they cannot (and this country has never experienced anything of that scope, anyway, not anything even close to it, to say the absolute least).

Haiti does not have any of the resources necessary to even begin "recovering" from this on its own, regardless of how hard its citizens work. We do. Our homeless eat. They are routinely given food, places to sleep, blankets, hats, gloves, etc. by people who desire to help them. Theirs don't, and they receive nothing, because there isn't anyone who has the ability to help them. To compare the circumstances in Haiti and other nations with the circumstances in America and not desire to help those people because, "hey, we have homeless, too, and we're in debt to top it off" does not make any sense to me.

Edit:
I think we just look at it from fundamentally different viewpoints, though. You see barriers, acknowledge nations and self-interest. I see just human beings helping other human beings, without impediment and without care for self.

Still, even acknowledging that, I still find that comparing the situation in Haiti and past circumstances in other devastated areas that we have aided to our national debt and our own poverty just doesn't make any sense, because the things are in completely different universes.

What she said. Well put.

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:53 pm 
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the private "resort" is kinda a small cove or bay like 60 miles away. its not really that close, and the surrounding area isnt really effected. thats what i read.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:26 pm 
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ironyisadeadscene wrote:
the private "resort" is kinda a small cove or bay like 60 miles away. its not really that close, and the surrounding area isnt really effected. thats what i read.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 8&t=h&z=16

139Km from Port Au Prince according to our google overlords...

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nnyfan
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Personally, I would be mortified to be on a cruise ship on that island...I would just feel pompous as hell...

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Godzilla1960
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
I think this statement should be strongly considered
Quote:
Royal Caribbean International has contributed the largest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti since 1986

1 single corporation has been providing the island the most tourist revenue.

That's the only viable future of a place like Haiti...tourism.
Look at the Dominican republic.

To me it is a matter of timing.

Yes, Haiti needs tourist dollars, but what kind of human being can sit on the beach and ask someone to get him another Red Stripe, knowing that person has probably lost family in the quake?

Someday 9/11 jokes will be funny, but not on September 12.

It is too soon for Royal Caribbean to be making tourist stops, in my opinion. Humanitarian stops? Yes. I'll bet folks on the ship wouldn't even mind if the captain announced that they would need to make a brief stop to off-load food and medical supplies and if anyone would like to donate...

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ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:37 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
the private "resort" is kinda a small cove or bay like 60 miles away. its not really that close, and the surrounding area isnt really effected. thats what i read.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 8&t=h&z=16

139Km from Port Au Prince according to our google overlords...


so like 80 miles? so, chances are the area is fine, and the whole country cant be inaccessible.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:42 pm 
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Godzilla1960 wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
I think this statement should be strongly considered
Quote:
Royal Caribbean International has contributed the largest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti since 1986

1 single corporation has been providing the island the most tourist revenue.

That's the only viable future of a place like Haiti...tourism.
Look at the Dominican republic.

To me it is a matter of timing.

Yes, Haiti needs tourist dollars, but what kind of human being can sit on the beach and ask someone to get him another Red Stripe, knowing that person has probably lost family in the quake?

Someday 9/11 jokes will be funny, but not on September 12.

It is too soon for Royal Caribbean to be making tourist stops, in my opinion. Humanitarian stops? Yes. I'll bet folks on the ship wouldn't even mind if the captain announced that they would need to make a brief stop to off-load food and medical supplies and if anyone would like to donate...

I agree, I was just pointing out that Royal Caribbean has been the #1 economic partner for the island tourism speaking.
We agree that is their economic future (if one is to be had).
So I don't see this so much as an exploitative move, just adding some extra aid to an otherwise symbiotic relationship.

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