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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:02 pm 
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fly as hale wrote:
One of my favorite movies of all-time is Jesus Christ Superstar and it has nothing to do with me being religious (I'm not). But it's such a great film! I have the soundtrack of it on my iPod and I saw the live stage production of it in Rochester a few years ago. Ted Neeley has been playing Jesus longer than Jesus was alive! Crazy to think about...but he plays a damn good Jesus and he's still sexy and belting out the tunes after all these years.

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I agree, I love that movie.

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:44 pm 
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And believe it or not, I would say JC Superstar presents Jesus in a more sympathetic and human way than many ministers do.

One thing it does wrong however, is that it plays into the idea that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. There is no evidence in the Gospels to back that belief up, and actually many (including myself) believe that this was an idea made up by the early church patriarchy to keep women out of the church leadership. You see there's actually a good amount of writing that would lead you to believe that Mary Magdalene was extremely important in the early church, maybe even a leader (she was, according to the Gospels, the first to see Jesus after his resurrection. and there is a "Gospel of Mary Magdalene" among those books that were somehow left out of the cannonical bible). The portrayal of her as a prostitute was done as part of a strategy to keep women out of church leadership. The only "acceptable" woman figure was Mary according to this strategy, a virgin. Sex made women dirty and unworthy, so what better way to rid church history of women's proper place than portray the most important woman of early church history as a whore?

That's some BS.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
And believe it or not, I would say JC Superstar presents Jesus in a more sympathetic and human way than many ministers do.

One thing it does wrong however, is that it plays into the idea that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. There is no evidence in the Gospels to back that belief up, and actually many (including myself) believe that this was an idea made up by the early church patriarchy to keep women out of the church leadership. You see there's actually a good amount of writing that would lead you to believe that Mary Magdalene was extremely important in the early church, maybe even a leader (she was, according to the Gospels, the first to see Jesus after his resurrection. and there is a "Gospel of Mary Magdalene" among those books that were somehow left out of the cannonical bible). The portrayal of her as a prostitute was done as part of a strategy to keep women out of church leadership. The only "acceptable" woman figure was Mary according to this strategy, a virgin. Sex made women dirty and unworthy, so what better way to rid church history of women's proper place than portray the most important woman of early church history as a whore?

That's some BS.

There's also no proof she wasn't... I don't know that I believe it, but you can't discount it just because it's not in the bible. Entire books were left out.

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:50 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
And believe it or not, I would say JC Superstar presents Jesus in a more sympathetic and human way than many ministers do.

One thing it does wrong however, is that it plays into the idea that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. There is no evidence in the Gospels to back that belief up, and actually many (including myself) believe that this was an idea made up by the early church patriarchy to keep women out of the church leadership. You see there's actually a good amount of writing that would lead you to believe that Mary Magdalene was extremely important in the early church, maybe even a leader (she was, according to the Gospels, the first to see Jesus after his resurrection. and there is a "Gospel of Mary Magdalene" among those books that were somehow left out of the cannonical bible). The portrayal of her as a prostitute was done as part of a strategy to keep women out of church leadership. The only "acceptable" woman figure was Mary according to this strategy, a virgin. Sex made women dirty and unworthy, so what better way to rid church history of women's proper place than portray the most important woman of early church history as a whore?

That's some BS.

There's also no proof she wasn't... I don't know that I believe it, but you can't discount it just because it's not in the bible. Entire books were left out.

Including a book that she supposedly wrote, which I added to my last post in an edit.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Ahh. Well, many moons ago was all he-said, she-said, I heard from this guy once kind of stories :/

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Rutledge222
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Well, I cant tell you if she was or wasnt... Im not sure... I dont think she was... and the whole idea of "women are dirty if they have sex" was I believe the idea that they were supposed to be pure for their husbands... you know? Maybe not.. idk... haha

But anyways Bible verse for the day is....

Ephesians 6:10-18

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.

Pretty simple I think, trust in God, and pray that he will help you make it through the day and He will.

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daz28
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:37 am 
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I think it means don't think too much; trust that if you've made good, just decisions all day, you will have been a good person, and reached your goal.

I think this part could have been worded more clearly, "lean not on your own understanding".

Hey, these might be fun.


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Howie Hodge
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:46 am 
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I used to love the church as a child....

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End The Curse
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:54 am 
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Howie Hodge wrote:
I used to love the church as a child....

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I gotta get me some nun!

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daz28
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:01 am 
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I pretty sure they'd categorize this woman as "dirty", even if she was pure(virgin).


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acrossthelines
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:33 am 
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What is and is not "dirty" or "modest" is, and should always be, culturally based. And I'm not even a postmodernist in a lot of ways. :lol:

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:01 am 
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I just had a girl tell me you can't believe in god if you're not a christian. /facepalm

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Godzilla1960
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:37 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
One thing it does wrong however, is that it plays into the idea that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. There is no evidence in the Gospels to back that belief up, and actually many (including myself) believe that this was an idea made up by the early church patriarchy to keep women out of the church leadership.


This is certainly the view of Dan Brown, of The Da Vinci Code fame.

For about a thousand years the Catholic Church viewed Mary Magdalene as the same person described as "the sinful woman" in Luke 7, who washed Jesus' feet with her tears, and Mary of Bethany, described in John and Luke as a sister of Lazarus. Pope Gregory ruled all three were the same woman. In this view she is a penitent woman, who is redeemed for her sinful (promiscuous) ways by becoming a disciple of Jesus. In 1969 the Church reversed its position that Mary was a prostitute. Catholics believe the relics of Magdalene reside today in Burgundy, France.

The Eastern Orthodox Church views all three as separate women and both Mary Magdalen and Mary of Bethany are venerated separately as saints. In this branch of Christianity Magdalene was never a fallen or sinful woman, and is in fact seen as virtuous all her life. Orthodox believe the relics of Magdalen are being held in Istanbul (formerly Constantinople).

Protestants have varying opinions, but many denominations see Mary of Bethany and the "sinful woman" as the same person and Mary Magdalene as a separate person. I don't think Protestants have their own relics of Mary.

Catholic, Orthodox, and Lutheran churches have all made Magdalene a saint.

At this point it would appear that the question is open to debate (although I'm sure that is not the official position of any of the Christian denominations).


acrossthelines wrote:
What is and is not "dirty" or "modest" is, and should always be, culturally based.


Jonathan Haidt, a psychology professor from the University of Virginia, identified five fundamental moral values that are universal to all societies. These are:

1) Care for others, protecting them from harm.
2) Fairness, justice, treating others equally.
3) Loyalty to your group, family, and/or nation.
4) Respect for tradition and legitimate authority.
5) Purity, avoiding disgusting things, foods, actions.

Cultures (and religions) may disagree about what constitutes each of these morals, but all human societies value these virtues. Religious wars of the past and the culture wars of our own day usually center around disagreements over our interpretations of these ideas.

Using this system of identifying moral values what is considered sexually "dirty" would fall under the purity category. As ATL says, each culture has its own definition of what is immoral or "dirty" sexually.

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Rutledge222
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:36 am 
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Romans 3:23 + 24

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

This is one of the most famous bible verses in the Bible. And I think it deeply reflects to Christians that even though we are sinners we should still try and live a good life for God, and ask for forgiveness. I think it explains itself pretty well...

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Los9090
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:55 am 
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Everyone better go to a church tomorrow and start PRAYING for wins

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Rutledge222
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:55 am 
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Los9090 wrote:
Everyone better go to a church tomorrow and start PRAYING for wins



Haha Im already on it! ;)

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Godzilla1960
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:04 am 
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Rutledge222 wrote:
Romans 3:23 + 24

For all have sinned...

This is an interesting word, sin.

The original Hebrew word for sin, het, means "to miss the mark," as does the Greek word used in the New Testement, hamartia. In this context sin is not evil, but simply falling short of a desired goal. Of course, this is not the meaning of the word in the Christian context.

For Jews sin is not a state of being, but rather a specific action. It refers to something that is done, not to something someone is. I like to use the example of washing windows. Just because I might wash the windows of my car when I fill it up with gas, does not make me a window washer, in the sense of someone who does this for a living. Because someone has sinned in his or her past, does not make that person sinful in his or her being.

Christians, however, have a different interpretation. They link sin - "missing the mark" - with a deliberate disobedience to god. Jesus taught that mistakes are not sin. Nor is temptation. Sin is doing wrong when we know better - a willful rejection of the light, as stated in John 3:18-21. Sin then, is the deliberate and conscious rejection of god, and by definition, of good.

What I have never been able to understand about this Christian tradition of sin, is the idea of original sin - the idea that all are tainted with sin in our being by the first sin committed by Adam and Eve. This original sin of Adam and Eve was disobeying god by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, sometimes translated as the tree of conscience. Because of this sin they were banished from the garden and denied access to the tree of life, the reason given for human mortality. According to the story, Adam and Eve had free will to obey or disobey god and they chose disobedience, forever tainting all subsequent generations with sin, which, according to Christian teaching (obviously, not Jewish), could only be redeemed by embracing Jesus and his message.

My confusion is that if Adam and Eve had not tasted of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (conscience) then how did they have a basis for knowing right from wrong? It seems like they were, morally, little children who had not been taught right from wrong and therefore could not be expected to make informed ethical decisions. They were given free will, yes, but if there is no knowledge of good and evil, then all actions are morally equal.

Jesus has stated that sin is not simply a mistake, but rather a willful action to move away from light and toward evil. If a child repeats a curse word, but has no knowledge that the word is socially unacceptible, can we punish that child for a transgression of which he or she had no awareness? If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of what was good or evil then how can they willfully commit an act of evil? In this context there is no moral difference between obeying god or disobeying god, since the distinction between those two acts depends upon an understanding of right and wrong, good and evil. Adam and Eve did not have this understanding until they ate from the forbidden tree and gained a sense of conscience. In this light their disobedience was humanity's first act of growing up, not an original sin.

For Jews, sin is an individual act with specific individual conscequences. However, for Christians sin a state of being in which all people exist (as stated in Romans 3:23) because of the original sin of Adam and Eve. Because of their sin all will be condemned, but for the redemption of Jesus (Roman 3:24).

To me, the original premise of this Christian concept of sin as a state of being is based upon a logical inconsistency.

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Rutledge222
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:44 pm 
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In short,because I have no intention of trying to put you down or write a monster post lol. When you say "sin - to miss a mark" Well, the way I see that, is that Christians are trying to have a good relationship with God, but if they sin, they (as jesus put it) have done something that puts them back away from God, they miss the mark of being with God. So in essence, It kinda makes sense to me if you look at it like that... But I understand fulling where you are coming from because things do get lost in translation all the time haha. Its almost like that telephone game we all played when we were kids where we start a story and it goes from one person to another to another to another and then by the end its distorted.. Now Im not saying the Bible is distorted, I have no doubt in my mind though that there are some things in the bible that are misinterpreted in some way or another. But anyways thats just where I think most christians get that doing something wrong, because if sinning puts us farther away from God then we obviously "missed the mark". But ya. Very good post Zilla haha, got me thinking... you do a lot of research dont you?





Verse of the Day:

Ephesians 2:8

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.

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Rutledge222
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Oh ya I just remembered what I was going to say about the Adam and Eve thing... It clearly states in the bible that God told Adam and Eve that they could eat from ANY tree in the Garden of Eden, except the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil... He told them not to eat from it and they still did. Satan tempted Eve and Eve ate it, then she gave it to Adam. So, Satan was trying to get humans to sin from the very beginning to corrupt a relationship with God... so ya... haha That is also why Jesus ended up coming to earth so we COULD have a personal relationship with God again.

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nnyfan
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:10 pm 
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Rutledge222 wrote:
Verse of the Day:

Ephesians 2:8

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.



I'm trying to wrap my head around this, Rut. Bible talk is sometimes hard to get the grasp of. I think I'll just add that I think it is showing trust in God's grace by letting him lead the way for us. To relinquish control of our desitny to God and let Him show us the path he wants us to take. Its hard not to force our wants into what we think God wants for us. For instance, take Abraham. He wanted a son and God told him to have faith...he will be granted a son. But when his wife became barren, he thought, 'how can I have a son now, when my wife can't have children?' Instead of waiting for God to give him a son through God's plan, Abraham took one of his slaves and she became pregnant with Isaac (right?). Shortly later, a miracle happened and Abraham's barren wife became pregnant and then Abraham realized that he should have been more patient with God's plan. I think I have this story right...but its an important story because it shows that we should have more faith in God and trust that He has a perfect plan for us if we are just patient.

And, regarding praying for the Sabres, Bills, Colts or any other sports team...I'd rather let God spend his prayer answering for people that really need it. The Sabres don't need prayers, they need a fire lit under their asses. Or to be benched. Or a slap across the face. I'll pray for them to stay safe and not get injured, but winning is something they need to do on their own. just my two cents. LOL

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