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End The Curse
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:02 am 
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I have to say, despite some momentary lapses of defensive consciousness, I have been very happy overall with Sekera's play since returning to the lineup. He has finally showed the speed and skill that we expected, and has even been hitting more. I like him paired with Loods...it should teach him toughness and smart play in his own end.

He just needs to get a bit more consistent in his own end and he could be a real asset to our team.

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slesh
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:04 am 
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There is a larger picture here that many seem to be missing? I think that statement may be correct.............anyways.
We have work to do as an organization on the Blueline, that much is for sure. I take the position I do based on the short term as well as the long term competitiveness of the team.
Tallinder will most likely be resigned due to his play with Myers. This is, of course, an assumption, but I would think a somewhat accurate one.

This leaves the other 2 pairings.............

Lydman and Montador: Lydman UFA, 32 yrs old, he should be traded before the deadline to garner some type of return, has Darcy not learned his lesson from the Drury/Briere fiasco? Montador signed past this season, Sekera as his partner? Maybe.

Rivet and Butler: Rivet is signed past this season, tradable? Perhaps, but Butler's play has been equally as bad. With D men in the pipeline such as Weber and Gragnani could we see Butler or Rivet moved? Doubt it, and here in lies the problem. I would say Weber and Butler, or Weber and Rivet. I don't know, but Weber is highly looked upon as an up and comer by many hockey talent scouts.

Then there is Gragnani, who I am sure would make some team in the NHL. Maybe the Sabres? Not this season and he will be an RFA this next season. We could, in all reality, put together a package deal to get something for the Sabres worth a shit in return while at the same time preparing for next seasons roster.

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sabretoothpick
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:04 am 
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28 minutes for Myers without finishing the game :o ?
I hate it when a rookie has to pay the price just because the "leaders" forget to show up.
As I mentioned in another thread, Rivet shouldn't be captain any more. He just looks tired and old out there and I think it doesn't matter what great of a guy you are in the locker room if you can't bring your A-game on the ice.

Whenever I watched the Sabres this season Lydman was playing solid. Guys like Montador, Sekera and Butler always scare me whenever they have the puck in their own zone.

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HelloMyKneeGrows
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:35 am 
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sabretoothpick wrote:
As I mentioned in another thread, Rivet shouldn't be captain any more. He just looks tired and old out there and I think it doesn't matter what great of a guy you are in the locker room if you can't bring your A-game on the ice.


Although I agree Rivet's play this season has been pretty bad, stripping a veteran leader and strong locker room presence - who was voted Captain by the whole team before he played a game in Buffalo - of the C mid-season without better cause would only serve to turn the players against Lindy. It is an UNBELIEVABLE sign of disrespect to do something like that without that players permission/suggestion. ESPECIALLY mid-season when your team is 5th in the conference and 2 points from 1st in the divison and a #3 playoff seed.

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Timbo Slice
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:58 am 
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Squanto wrote:
slesh wrote:
Lydman however, is expendable in my book, insert Weber.


I'm not sure I agree with this.

If Weber was good enough to replace Lydman, then he's certainly better than Sekera/Butler/Patches/Montador, and he's be up here already.


That's not true. You know this teams policy about young guys. They probably think that unless absolutely necessary (Injuries) then Weber will stay this whole year with Portland, and we'll see him up here next year.

I like Rivet sitting, but I don't think it's good. If we're going to sit him, then we HAVE to trade him. You can't sit your freaking Captain every night.


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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:59 am 
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Weber has had the opportunity to make the team the last couple years, and hasn't been able to do it.

Why would he magically have the talent to replace your #3 defenseman now?


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Timbo Slice
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:08 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
Weber has had the opportunity to make the team the last couple years, and hasn't been able to do it.

Why would he magically have the talent to replace your #3 defenseman now?


As I remember, he had a horrible training camp, right? Now he's tearing up the AHL. Something happened between then and now.

He's absolutely GOT to be better than Montador, Rivet, and Butler most nights.


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slesh
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:08 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
Weber has had the opportunity to make the team the last couple years, and hasn't been able to do it.

Why would he magically have the talent to replace your #3 defenseman now?

I don't disagree with you. Lindy's staff I am sure have done the proper vetting of him. But I do have to go off of the comments from Darcy Reiger, who heads the personnel decisions. If he says a build from within policy is the way the organization is going then I would have no reason to discount his words.

Also, I would have to believe they are not just going to let talent in Portland continue to walk to other teams when there initial contracts are up at ages 22 to 24. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever and is actually a bad business practice. I believe he is ready based on his performance in Portland, of which I have caught over a dozen games this season on Video (my sister lives in Portland). He looked sound to me. Gragnani also looked fairly good at moving the puck as well. I think the larger point of my post wasn't intended to state that it has to be done, but it is the option Darcy is pointing to, as I stated.

Lydman will not be resigned IMO. Tallinder may due to his work with Myers. Montador, Rivet and Butler all currently have contracts beyond this season but by no means do they need to be staples of the blueline. If its one thing Darcy has done in last 3 seasons during the draft, he has filled the stables with D men on the farm team.

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sabretoothpick
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:19 pm 
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HelloMyKneeGrows wrote:
sabretoothpick wrote:
As I mentioned in another thread, Rivet shouldn't be captain any more. He just looks tired and old out there and I think it doesn't matter what great of a guy you are in the locker room if you can't bring your A-game on the ice.


Although I agree Rivet's play this season has been pretty bad, stripping a veteran leader and strong locker room presence - who was voted Captain by the whole team before he played a game in Buffalo - of the C mid-season without better cause would only serve to turn the players against Lindy. It is an UNBELIEVABLE sign of disrespect to do something like that without that players permission/suggestion. ESPECIALLY mid-season when your team is 5th in the conference and 2 points from 1st in the divison and a #3 playoff seed.


I agree with you, that it could be counterproductive to demote the captain. It would give all the other players an excuse for their lack of effort. But I can only imagine that it's kind of odd for Myers or Connolly when Rivet steps up and talks about what they should do or need to do better.
Rivet was voted captain when he was their best defense man and a role model on the ice. Right now he is a liability (paired with Butler).

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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:20 pm 
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I'm not saying that Weber and Gragnani don't end up making the team at some point. I also agree that I don't think Lydman gets resigned.

I just don't agree that you can plug Weber/Gragnani into Lydman's roster spot and expect the same level of play. Neither has shown the ability to be a full time NHL defenseman yet.


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slesh
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
I'm not saying that Weber and Gragnani don't end up making the team at some point. I also agree that I don't think Lydman gets resigned.

I just don't agree that you can plug Weber/Gragnani into Lydman's roster spot and expect the same level of play. Neither has shown the ability to be a full time NHL defenseman yet.

Ya, I agree, but since no moves are to be made this trade deadline by Buffalo, why not plug them in now and dump Rivet and Lydman for draft picks? Couldn't hurt any, I mean, I have to believe Lindy and Darcy are well aware they aren't going to go toe to toe with Wash. or Pitt in the East, and they would get run over by San Jose if by some miracle they made it that far.

Sounds like a good time to get these guys feet wet at the NHL level and prepare them to gel with their team mates.

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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Here's the catch 22, and why I can't stand the Darcy hate.

If you don't trade some of the guys with expiring contracts, people will yell and scream about how Darcy lets players walk without getting anything in return.

If you do trade some of the guys with expiring contracts, people will yell and scream about how the organization isn't commuted to winning a cup since they trade away talent before a playoff run.

He's in a no win position when it comes to what some fans want, which is why I'm glad he doesn't listen to them. :)


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End The Curse
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:32 pm 
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Squanto, I've been saying for awhile now that Tallinder would be great trade bait since his value's inflated being paired with Myers. We're very deep at that position, and let's face it: Myers would still be The One without Tallinder next year, while Tallinder without Myers is a helpless animal looking for safety.

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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:36 pm 
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I'm not opposed to the idea.

If it were up to me, I'd move Hank OR Lydman, but not both. Going into the playoffs isn't the greatest time to take 2 of your top 4 defensemen out of the lineup.

The fact remains though that there is destined to be negative fan reaction no matter what happens.


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slesh
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
Here's the catch 22, and why I can't stand the Darcy hate.

If you don't trade some of the guys with expiring contracts, people will yell and scream about how Darcy lets players walk without getting anything in return.

If you do trade some of the guys with expiring contracts, people will yell and scream about how the organization isn't commuted to winning a cup since they trade away talent before a playoff run.

He's in a no win position when it comes to what some fans want, which is why I'm glad he doesn't listen to them. :)

Well, its his own fault in my opinion. I mean, lets be honest here, in his time with Buffalo he hasn't exactly inspired longevity when it comes to building a winner. Lets put aside Hasek for a moment and focus on Drury/Briere. Yes I know everyone is tired of rehashing this, but the reality is he had a chance to sign them and did not. That was a contending team and he tore the heart out of it. Like I say quite often Squanto, lets call a spade a spade.

As for this season, I was holding out hope up until 2 events, obviously Kovy was one of them, but out of Darcy's own mouth was the other. Through his own comments it would appear as though they are preparing for a run next season, with that being the assumed case, why not plug in the young guys, let them gain the experience this season, including the playoff atmosphere and harden them to some extent for training camp next season.

My thinking on this season is it does not have to be a total loss.

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Timbo Slice
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:43 pm 
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End The Curse wrote:
Squanto, I've been saying for awhile now that Tallinder would be great trade bait since his value's inflated being paired with Myers. We're very deep at that position, and let's face it: Myers would still be The One without Tallinder next year, while Tallinder without Myers is a helpless animal looking for safety.


I think that's a great idea. Keep Loods, trade Hank at the deadline, then let Loods walk after this year. Use our cap space to sign a top 3 D-man, and call up Weber.


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Sk8haggard9
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:57 pm 
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End The Curse wrote:
I have to say, despite some momentary lapses of defensive consciousness, I have been very happy overall with Sekera's play since returning to the lineup. He has finally showed the speed and skill that we expected, and has even been hitting more. I like him paired with Loods...it should teach him toughness and smart play in his own end.

He just needs to get a bit more consistent in his own end and he could be a real asset to our team.

Yep. In the few games he has shown confidence he has been one of our better players. He has shown the ability to put up numbers and play decently in his own end. He (and Weber) even almost led the teams to the playoffs with a brilliant final stretch 2 seasons ago.

Once he gains his confidence every night and tweaks a few things (Pairing with Loods should help) he should be a really be a great defensman and all around player. Maybe he'll be a late bloomer like Campbell, who plays a similar style game. Definetly someone who I wouldn't want to give up on in the next few seasons, even if he plays a Paestch kind of roll in the future.


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jvaccaro6
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:20 pm 
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End The Curse wrote:
I have to say, despite some momentary lapses of defensive consciousness, I have been very happy overall with Sekera's play since returning to the lineup. He has finally showed the speed and skill that we expected, and has even been hitting more. I like him paired with Loods...it should teach him toughness and smart play in his own end.

He just needs to get a bit more consistent in his own end and he could be a real asset to our team.


I agree, he's been brilliant for the most part. The only time I really saw him overwhelmed, was last night in OT when he was on the ice with Butler. Sekera when paired with a good, strong, stay at home defensive man is at his best. I think thats why he and Weber excelled so much together, and last year while being paired with Hank, he struggled. Hank is a bit of a balanced defensive man, and Sekera is more of a puck moving, offensive d man.

I also strongly believe Sekera will excell more with someone who he's comfortable with. It's apparent he's more willing to play his game with a player like Lydman backing him, rather than a player like Hank, or Montador.

If Darcy is moving Lydman at the deadline, I'd only hope that he brings in a player that mirrors Lydman's game in return. Perhaps Ossi Vannanen, or Ohlund type player.

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Rutledge222
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:35 pm 
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So with Craig Rivet sitting riding the pine... Who is going to be Captain?

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Howie Hodge
 Post subject: Re: Rivet sits the bench
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:27 pm 
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For those of you wanting to see Weber and Gragnani up here, and playing regular minutes; you are overating both of them. As Squanto has kindly tried to impart upon you; if they were all that, then they'd have been here already.

Miller's return to mortal status, be it temporary or other; has exposed a very suspect defense. Had Myers not exceeded his learning curve this year (and in the process making Hank servicable again) we'd have been up shit's creek with our current crew.

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