I don't have a link, so you'll have to take me at my word, but a friend of mine is a close family friend of Ken Thompson of the Thompson Group (richest man in Canada) who owns 75% of the winnipeg downtown and is looking for a new attraction.

What do you guys think of the Jets coming back? Obviously I can't be 100% certain about this, but apparently he paid 175 million and since he owns CTV (the Olympics TV provider in Canada) he's going to announce it after when the focus can be on Winnipeg and not the games.

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When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

I would wholeheartedly support this, if it were true.

We'll need to keep a sharp eye on this as the games come to a close.

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mechaphil

I'd love it.

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Wheelhouse

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mechaphil

Great move...link me up, Scotty!

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

the thing is though wouldn't the hardest struggling team be moved. i mean atlanta may not get a lot of people to show up but the yotes and a couple other teams are basically owned by the league. I'd think they would be moved first, but then again bettman is an idiot.

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"Tis The Season, Fa la la la la LaFontaine" - Rick Jeanneret

This would only serve as a short term attraction. We have to remember that Winnipeg lost their team before due to lack of money. What makes us think this will be any different, particularly with this economy?

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Check out my website: http://www.artistzero.com

"That wasn't very nice...I do believe you killed my hat."

Driver of the FIRE LINDY RUFF Bandwagon since 2008.

Leave teams alone right now, wait until at least after 2011 for the new CBA, and if these teams are still struggling financially, look at options other than the ones that already had a team but lost them due to financial reasons already.

I'd look at Hartford first before any other place as they mainly lost their team due to a failed arena plan.

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No. They lost the team for one reason and one reason only: Poor facility. Now that that problem has been fixed, the NHL wants back in.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

This.

When the Jets pulled out back at the end of '96, they needed a new building big time. The Winnipeg Arena was old and pretty much falling down from what I was told. The MTS Center is just shy of NHL capacity. They've expanded the Saddle Dome in Calgary recently (within the last 7 years give or take) so that is proof that they can do this for modern buildings. Great location for it as well as the MTS Center is right in the heart of D/T 'Peg. With enclosed walk-ways linked to the building. I've never been in it, but from what I've seen of clips, this friggin place is awesome! Also, Gary said during the summer and the whole Hamilton drama, that if the NHL were to consider another Canadian team, be it expansion or relocation, it would be Winnipeg.

Seeing those pics of the Jets back in the day brings back memories and I would wholeheartedly be up for this! If anyone wants to check out this site, it's pretty cool. They even have their own merchandise!

http://www.jetsowner.com/

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If it's a tight squeeze, spit on it! - NyI

He's a middling AHL player who had the good fortune of a drunk arbitrator. - The Squanto re: Tim Kennedy

The facility was not the only reason, although it was a contributing factor. They team was unable to handle the rising salaries in the 90s with the financial support they had. The arena didn't help with revenue either.

Winnipeg is a very small market, smaller than Buffalo. Even when factoring in regional population, Winnipeg is half the size of the Buffalo metro. While their economy is on the upswing, it would be difficult for them to generate the revenue required to break even, let alone turn a profit.

The only reason the NHL would approve of ATL to Winnipeg would be to collect a new round of franchise fees. The team would be behind the 8 ball from the start. I don't see this happening.

This is a very common misunderstanding, Squanto. Check this site...it provides hard numbers to tear down many of the popular myths about the NHL not succeeding in Winnipeg. http://www.manitobamythbusters.com/php/ ... on=101:101

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

Myth 1 : It is a totally fallacy that the true paid attendance at NHL arenas is 10,000. Even if you assumed that EVERY team in the league was papering their seats to the tune of 1k a game, EVERY NHL TEAM would STILL be above 10k average attendance. Montreal and Chicago would still be above 20k per game.

Myth 2 : Predicated on the assumption that they would sell out every game at the average ticket price, which is a very large assumption.

Myth 6: Again predicated on the assumption of about 94% capacity

Myth 8 : Although the financial considerations listed aren't wrong, those teams (aside form Phoenix) aren't looking to move. Bettman does not WANT them to move.

To be clear, I'm not against a team in Winnipeg. I think it would be great. However, my readings of many of the pro-Winnipeg sites, like this one, have arguments that are fairly lacking. They make plenty of assumptions that are substantially flawed.

Squanto, if you read more carefully you would see they never claimed the true paid attendance at NHL arenas is under 10,000. What they said is that MANY TIMES in the NHL, even in huge markets like Phoenix, Miami and Atlanta, the actual gate is frequently under 10,000 fans in paid attendance, which is obviously true. This emphasizes how packing in over 15,000 every night in actual paid attendance, at above average NHL prices, would be a powerful asset to the league.

Selling out every game is no myth, Squanto. They would do so easily, and I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise from any source. Keep in mind, there is NO other competition for the sports entertainment dollar in Winnipeg, and they drew almost 14,000 per game in the pathetic barn they had before...above average in the league at that time.

Listen, I am open minded to learning what is seriously flawed about the evidence they've presented. I certainly don't want to be duped into believing lies and fraudulent claims if that's what they are. Please feel free to share with me the sources of information that support your opinion. I'm willing to jump on board the anti-Winnipeg bandwagon if you can make the case.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

This is his quote that I was referencing.



Last season, the poorest drawing team was the New York Islanders, averaging 13,773 per game. It's impossible for them to have been 'regularly' under 10,000 per game, yet somehow end up with a 13,773 average.

Mathematically, look at it like this. Assume that 21 of the Islanders home games drew 10,000 fans. In order to meet their total attendance figures for 2009, they would have to have averaged 17,735 fans for the remaining 20. Does that make any sense to you?

Assuming they did get a team, and sold out the 15,0003 seat MTS center every night, they STILL wouldn't outdraw the Predators, Panthers, Hurricanes, or Lightning, teams that we can all agree have dick for fan support in their respective markets.

I'm not anti-Winnipeg. I'm anti-this guy's creative math.

Squanto, do you deny that many teams frequently have a paid gate under 10,000 fans? Key word PAID? I live in a very bad hockey market and the giveaways and freebies are incredible. Almost nobody pays the real ticket price. I know I never have.

Currently, the NHL has 12 teams averaging 15,000 fans or less. The league's average attendance this year is just over 16,000. Winnipeg could expand their arena to hold almost 16,000 fans, which would be right at the league average, but more than that they would be almost all paid fans with filled luxury boxes and ample corporate support.

Look, your argument is valid from the perspective of Bettman's model of southern expansion to untraditional US hockey markets. I know some believe that model was a sound one, and maybe you think so, too. I have never liked the idea of forcing hockey into markets that don't care about the sport hoping it will catch on like the NBA, and for the most part it hasn't worked.

Full houses paying top dollar in state of the art arenas is a model I think works, and that model works best in markets that want and love hockey. Of the 700,000 people living in Winnipeg, about 690,000 are rabid fans who will buy all the merchandise and follow the team religiously. Contrast that with Phoenix, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, Carolina, etc, who combined probably don't have 600,000 rabid fans despite populations in the millions.

Anyway, we can both push numbers to fit our opinions all day, but I still think I'm right on this one.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

It would be better than Atlanta.

Take a look at the following document. This is allegedly formed from leaked NHL documents about how many tickets were unpaid freebies.

http://manitobamythbusters.com/articles/NHLweb.pdf

The teams that you would expect have a lot of freebies do, other teams not nearly that much. Would be interesting to see more recent numbers though.

With respect to the 10k fan number, yes I disagree that it is a frequent occurrence. Does it happen? Absolutely. However, it's not mathematically possible for teams to frequently have less than 10k butts in seats, yet still turn in season long averages at 14k and above.

Even if you assumed that every team in the league gave away 2500 seats a game ( double the league average based on that document ), you STILL don't have a team that averages under 10k paid attendance for an entire season.

My only point to all this is that the numbers this guy uses to justify the economics of Winnipeg do not stand up to analysis.

Squanto, I think this has gotten way off track. Nobody believes for one minute that the NHL averages fewer than 10,000 paid fans per game. Not sure why you think that's central to the argument, because nobody else believes it including myself or the sources that promote Winnipeg.

The claim is that throughout the league you will routinely have games that draw a paid attendance of less than 10,000 fans, and it's true. So far this season there have been 36 NHL games that have reported under 11,000 in attendance. Adjusting for freebies, it's probably at least double that number.

Still, the question of whether a team is viable if they draw 15-16,000 fans per night, with fully paid attendance, in a state-of-the-art facility, is what this is all about.

Well, ideally you want to sell out 100% in a 20,000 seat arena, of course, but that's not very realistic in most places.

Remember, Bettman himself has said he'd rather sell out a 15,000 seat arena every night than average 15,000 in a 19,000 seat facility. Sold out arenas mean high demand and full priced ticket sales, while the cavernous arenas create the need for promotional giveaways, free parking, etc. Those giveaways turn off prospective season ticket buyers who would rather hold out for giveaway deals or buy cheap scalpers than pay full fare in advance for games that don't sell out.

Winnipeg is a good model. Is it Toronto? No, but it's a hell of a lot better than Atlanta and many other pretenders who play before gaping swaths of empty seats.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

I think it would be cool to see a team in Winnipeg again. I mean I think moving some teams to Canada would be good, some southern teams with not a lot of popularity... just seems logical to me.

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LETS GO BUFFALO!