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Squanto
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:23 am 
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Rutledge222 wrote:
And if the reason is they took it down not what the message said but because of the messenger? Isnt that invoking on their right to free speech? I believe so, If I post something on here that you guys dont like but it was my opinion or view on something your not going to scream bloody murder over it and demand it be erased because it was completely absurd on every level and i was directly trying to discriminate against someone or something...


Yes, you are incorrect in your interpretation of 'free speech'.

Free speech means that the government cannot make a law abridging your right to say what you want. The same privilege does not extend to private entities.

If the NCAA doesn't like an ad displayed on their website, they can decide they don't want it there. That's not infringing on any free speech rights. They are a private organization.

The same goes around here. This is Crosscheck's web site. If he decided that he was going to delete any pro-Obama comment that he didn't like, he could choose to do so, and nobody would have any recourse. It's a private website.

On my company website, I've removed ads from the rotation that advertised competitors. That is also perfectly legal.
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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:24 am 
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Rutledge222 wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Rutledge222 wrote:
Um... I call Bullshit? Your kidding right? That in no way discriminates against gays in ANY WAY. The thing is with messages that are not spoken, is a person can interpret them in any way he wants, and the mood of the person has a huge influence on that. The guy who reported this ad was most likely having a bad day, misinterpreted the message and went to report what he thought was right.. I mean come on just cuz it says "I want my son growing up knowing he did the right thing" ? IT COULD BE ANYTHING if it was directed towards gays I think they would have made that more clear, because to me, that looks like "I want my son growing up, doing the right thing, so he can be a good person in life and not some asshole on the street" Every father wants whats best for his son, you dads out there cant disagree with that...

And if the reason is they took it down not what the message said but because of the messenger? Isnt that invoking on their right to free speech? I believe so, If I post something on here that you guys dont like but it was my opinion or view on something your not going to scream bloody murder over it and demand it be erased because it was completely absurd on every level and i was directly trying to discriminate against someone or something...


All Im saying is there are making something out of nothing and this whole thing is total bull shit.


The issue isn't with the ad itself, it's with the values of the organization.



Even so, its a sports organization banning an ad that has nothing to do with anything except for a father wanting his son raised right.. so whats the problem? Just because its FotF they are going to be like... Oh they are against homosexuality so we arent going to let them post their ads here... Still infringing on free speech... am I wrong?


I believe FotF takes the stance that marriage is between a man and a woman.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:27 am 
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James Dobson is the Founder of FotF

In a 2003 letter to the Christian community. In reference to the Same-Sex Marriage Movement, Dobson explains that the institution of marriage “…is about to descend into a state of turmoil unlike any other in human history.” Focus on the Family believes that marriage should be defined as being between a man and a woman. Dobson supported the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would have defined marriage as a union between one man and one woman. It also would have prevented courts and state legislatures from extending marriage rights to all Americans.

In the same letter Dobson explains that traditional marriage is the cornerstone of society, and he states that the goal of the gay and lesbian movement is not to redefine marriage but to destroy the institution itself. “Most gays and lesbians do not want to marry each other…the intention here is to destroy marriage altogether.”

Dobson spoke at the 2004 rally against gay marriage called Mayday for Marriage. It was here for the first time that he endorsed a presidential candidate, George W. Bush. Here he denounced the Supreme Court rulings in favor of gay rights, and he urged rally participants to get out and vote so that the battle against gay rights could be won in the Senate.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:53 am 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I believe FotF takes the stance that marriage is between a man and a woman.


So does Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I believe FotF takes the stance that marriage is between a man and a woman.


So does Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.


Good for them. I am not a democrat, nor do I particularly like either of those politicians.

I do not understand the purpose of this post.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:39 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I believe FotF takes the stance that marriage is between a man and a woman.


So does Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.


Good for them. I am not a democrat, nor do I particularly like either of those politicians.

I do not understand the purpose of this post.

Being against gay marriage doesn't necessarily mean one is against gay people.

The fact that FotF takes a stance against gay marriage has nothing to do with this thread.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:44 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I believe FotF takes the stance that marriage is between a man and a woman.


So does Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.


Good for them. I am not a democrat, nor do I particularly like either of those politicians.

I do not understand the purpose of this post.

Being against gay marriage doesn't necessarily mean one is against gay people.

The fact that FotF takes a stance against gay marriage has nothing to do with this thread.


Dobson spoke at the 2004 rally against gay marriage called Mayday for Marriage. It was here for the first time that he endorsed a presidential candidate, George W. Bush. Here he denounced the Supreme Court rulings in favor of gay rights, and he urged rally participants to get out and vote so that the battle against gay rights could be won in the Senate.

I think FotF is at least giving off that vibe. From my understanding, the NCAA pulled the add because they didn't want to associate themselves with an organization that takes a stance against gays like the one Dobson took above.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:04 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
From my understanding, the NCAA pulled the add because they didn't want to associate themselves with an organization that takes a stance against gays like the one Dobson took above.

That's fine, I was just commenting on your statement that they're against gay marriage.
I don't see how that fact, in and of itself, matters that much.

On an unrelated note, I find it awfully telling however that no one responded to my assertion that the NCAA would have no problem running an ad from Planned Parenthood.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:22 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
From my understanding, the NCAA pulled the add because they didn't want to associate themselves with an organization that takes a stance against gays like the one Dobson took above.

That's fine, I was just commenting on your statement that they're against gay marriage.
I don't see how that fact, in and of itself, matters that much.

On an unrelated note, I find it awfully telling however that no one responded to my assertion that the NCAA would have no problem running an ad from Planned Parenthood.


Well, I thought the fact that FotF is against gay marriage is the crux of the issue. This isn't about the Tebow abortion ad, or any other ads themselves, but the NCAA thinking that FotF being against gay marriage conflicts with their policies of inclusiveness.

I don't see how the NCAA allowing Planned Parenthood to run an ad would be an issue.

The NCAA's beef is discrimination, and to my knowledge, Planned Parenthood does not do that.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
On an unrelated note, I find it awfully telling however that no one responded to my assertion that the NCAA would have no problem running an ad from Planned Parenthood.


Because it's conjecture. I certainly don't know what the NCAA's position is on abortion, nor if they even take one. To comment on how they MIGHT react doesn't work for me.
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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:59 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
The NCAA's beef is discrimination, and to my knowledge, Planned Parenthood does not do that.

Oh heavens no...they're equal opportunity abortionists for sure.
Good thing they don't do anything else that would be as controversial as discrimination. :roll:
Squanto wrote:
Because it's conjecture. I certainly don't know what the NCAA's position is on abortion, nor if they even take one. To comment on how they MIGHT react doesn't work for me.

Whatever convoluted excuses about the group running the ad they want to use doesn't fly with me.

The ad was innocuous...yet clearly about abortion.
They reviewed it...and approved it.

The practical matter is they took a position on abortion by rejecting it...especially after the fact...it appears reactionary.

I have to go with ETC on this one...they waded into the weeds where they never should have roamed.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Cross...

Quote:
The NCAA made the decision after some of its members – including faculty and athletic directors – expressed concern that the evangelical group's stance against gay and lesbian relationships conflicted with the NCAA's policy of inclusion regardless of sexual orientation, Williams said.

The ad in question was not about sexuality. It featured a father holding his son and the words, "All I want for my son is for him to grow up knowing how to do the right thing." Like the Tebow ad, it included the address of Focus on the Family's Web site and the slogan, "Celebrate Family. Celebrate Life."
...
Williams said the decision to pull the ad was based not on the message but on the messenger.


I don't feel that the NCAA has taken a stance on abortion because this issue isn't about abortion at all. What Tom posted specifically says the NCAA pulled the ad because of FotF's stance on homosexuals and not because of the content of the ad itself, which was on abortion.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Like I said, it doesn't matter the reason they give (which I'm perfectly aware of)...they pulled an ad about abortion...not gay rights, or healthcare or the sovereignty of Tibet...Abortion.

The most astonishing and I think stupid part of all this is the NCAA feeling compelled to go to the national media about it.
Does someone want to explain that bit to me? Because the only reason I can think of for doing that is something like:

"nanny nanny poo poo we don't like these guys...look at us...we're standing up to those nasty anti abortion, anti gay marriage people...yay for us, we're attention whores!"

You approved it...it got displayed...deal with it like adults.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:26 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
Like I said, it doesn't matter the reason they give (which I'm perfectly aware of)...they pulled an ad about abortion...not gay rights, or healthcare or the sovereignty of Tibet...Abortion.

The most astonishing and I think stupid part of all this is the NCAA feeling compelled to go to the national media about it.
Does someone want to explain that bit to me? Because the only reason I can think of for doing that is something like:

"nanny nanny poo poo we don't like these guys...look at us...we're standing up to those nasty anti abortion, anti gay marriage people...yay for us, we're attention whores!"

You approved it...it got displayed...deal with it like adults.


After specifically stating that they did not have a problem with the message in the ad. I don't know why you're harping on abortion since it doesn't have anything to do with the situation.

I think that saying that the NCAA is lying about the reasoning they're giving for pulling the ad (which is controvertial enough as it is) is creating a conflict that isn't even there.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:35 pm 
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You're not addressing my main point...why did the NCAA feel the need to go to the national damn media about their own mistake?

The only logical explanation is they're trying to score political points...or political correctness points.

and I reject that this isn't about abortion...saying they don't like FotF is a convenient excuse.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:48 pm 
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Just read this....The Blog of Pat Griffin, the sandy vag behind the outrage and the woman who started the campaign to get the ad removed:

http://ittakesateam.blogspot.com/

No axe to grind there...nope.

She sounds like she has a seriously deep rooted hatred for Christians and social conservatives and it shows.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
You're not addressing my main point...why did the NCAA feel the need to go to the national damn media about their own mistake?

The only logical explanation is they're trying to score political points...or political correctness points.

and I reject that this isn't about abortion...saying they don't like FotF is a convenient excuse.



Did the NCAA go running to the media, or did they simply remove the ad, issue a statement explaining why and have the media run with it?

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Squanto
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
She sounds like she has a seriously deep rooted hatred for Christians and social conservatives and it shows.


Quote:
Look, if FOTF wants to buy advertising time on CBS and the ad meets CBS standards, they have a right to buy the time. I would only hope that CBS would fairly apply their standards to other advocacy ads from a different part of the political spectrum as well.


Oh my word!!! Her 'deep seated hatred' has blinded her to......hope that CBS gives all viewpoints equal treatment? Riiiiight....

Besides, who can blame her for being distrustful towards social conservatives? All of these righteous individuals have been screaming and yelling for YEARS about how people like her don't deserve the rights that everyone else has, simply because of her sexual preference.

You'd probably be pretty jaded too.
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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:00 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Did the NCAA go running to the media, or did they simply remove the ad, issue a statement explaining why and have the media run with it?

Why issue a statement?
It's not like people will notice what's not there.

Squanto wrote:
You'd probably be pretty jaded too.


I'm jaded for other reasons...That's why I'm not an adviser for a national organization.
I'm pretty sure the NCAA has Christian and social conservative members too...do they get an advocate?


Why am I even arguing this shit...I'm not a christian and I'm pro-choice...the NCAA has screwed up the handling of this royally.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:24 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Did the NCAA go running to the media, or did they simply remove the ad, issue a statement explaining why and have the media run with it?

Why issue a statement?
It's not like people will notice what's not there.

Squanto wrote:
You'd probably be pretty jaded too.


I'm jaded for other reasons...That's why I'm not an adviser for a national organization.
I'm pretty sure the NCAA has Christian and social conservative members too...do they get an advocate?


Why am I even arguing this shit...I'm not a christian and I'm pro-choice...the NCAA has screwed up the handling of this royally.


Doesn't it make you a dick to do something and not give justification? Or is this one of those no-win situations. In doing this the NCAA isn't attacking social conservatives, it's sticking up for gays and lesbians.

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