Yeah i'm guessing thats the view which is fueling this outrage, but practically, how could that ever be true? Is the AZ police force just sitting on their asses doing nothing? I doubt they have time to just be walking around trying to sort out the legals from illegals. They're not immigration officers, i've heard at least one law enforcement officer from AZ talking about (on NPR) how they dont have anything approaching the resources available to actually implement this full force. Anyways, so much attention is on this thing, if they're really going to start enforcing this, they'll probably have some statewide standard for behavior regarding who they do and do not question, before we hear what those stardards will be this seems like probably pointless conjecture.

Yankee, I'm with you on this thing being very impractical. In fact, the more I think about it, it seems like the people who are really getting screwed by this will be AZ law enforcement. They'll come off as assholes if they follow this law, and they can get sued if they don't. The state politicians "win" by passing this bill. The protesters get to have a big weekend. The media will do everything it can do to stir things up. And there will be no noticeable increase of deporting illegals for all the reasons you mentioned. Everybody wins except the cops.

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This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Emerson

I would also like to point this out as well... My friend went to arizona to visit a friend. while she was there she did a police ride along... but wait whats this? the officer she rode with was HISPANIC....

The way I see this....

- American citizens get stopped, they get checked, they move on their way... worst case scenario... 20 minutes of their day is gone. (Assuming all went well)

- Illegals get deported for being here ILLEGALLY hence the Illegals... hahaha.

I personally dont see anything wrong with this... Feel free to disagree of course... I know squanto will

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LETS GO BUFFALO!

And herein lies the problem with believing ANY news outlet's reporting of an issue. Fox will take the "illegals ARE AWFUL should be gone" slant while CNN, MSNBC, etc will take the "this is the Republicans being racist and HATING ALL NON WHITE MALES!!! RRRAAAAAWWWRRR!!" slant.

All politics aside.... I think all reasonable Democrats and Republicans are all for LEGAL immigration. That is, waiting in line, passing all proper federal, state laws and any other verification to become a TAX PAYING CITIZEN who pays in to the system they benefit from. The problem with ILLEGAL immigrants to this country is this......they cannot get legal employment because they are non citizens and therefore,

1. Work Under the table
2. Pay NO taxes
3. 90% of the time send excess wages back home leading to.....

ZERO contribution to America while benefiting COMPLETELY from all the opportunities afforded IN AMERICA. Once these people are in this country (ILLEGALLY which means AGAINST the law mind you) they are legally entitled to......healthcare, education for their children, social programs and benefits and anything else you can think of. Now, is it not fair to ask that if you BENEFIT from a society that is so fucking great you risked possible death to get here, that you help CONTRIBUTE to that society? I'm pretty sure any rational, educated Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green Party'er, Tea Party'er, etc, would agree that this is not too much to ask right?

Because we live in NY, this "problem" is not felt nearly as much and therefore it is easy for people here to look at this as a "race" issue when in fact it is really a "money" issue. If you have only legal citizens paying into the pot, then add an "estimated" 500,000 illegal immigrants, which by the way DOES NOT include children and dependents to this equation, without paying into the pot, you run into a serious fiscal issue quickly.

Now, I know I may be making this a long post, but that does not mean Im not making a very valid point. And to solidify my stance, I think I need to say I have two IMMEDIATE family members who married into my German/Irish Catholic family and were born in Puerto Rico and Colombia respectively, and BOTH lived there into their early 20's. And you know what would surprise most ACLU card carrying, corn bred, bleeding heart liberals? THEY ARE MORE AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAN ANY WHITE/BLACK/ASIAN/INDIAN AMERICAN PERSON OUTSIDE THE KKK (DOES THAT STILL EXIST) AND CRAZY MILITIAS. You know why? Because they did it legally, waited in line like they were supposed to, paid their dues and are now positive, contributing members of our society. They think its bullshit that people get to skirt the same laws they respected and are immediately entitled to the same benefits (and in many cases more) that they are FOR DOING SHIT ILLEGALLY!!!

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

Here's something you won't hear reported on very much...
The Governor of Arizona signed an amendment to the immigration bill clearing up several areas of contentious language.


Race can't be a reason for stopping someone and not all police contact can be used as a reason to inquire immigration status.

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2010/04/2 ... w#comments

oh well, I get to enjoy empty roads today because all the Mexicans will be protesting in downtown LA...I think I'll get some shopping done.
On a side note, hasn't anyone explained to them the possible negative implications of rallying together on May 1st?

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Such as the communist holiday they are protesting on? And that's a great step in the right direction for this law, making it that much easier for the governor to just say fuck you to people who want it gone without reading why it is "wrong".

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"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

An American citizen who cannot produce the documents would be deported. Yes. Stop acting so flabbergasted I'm not saying anything that hasn't been already.
I suppose laws tend to contradict themselves don't they? I know Clinton is a democrat and therefore knows absolutely nothing to you x, but I figured I'd post it anyways


This is textbook profiling. ANYONE SUSPECTED OF BEING HERE WITHOUT PROPER DOCUMENTATION.
Sorry but I don't expect the germans scottish or swedes being pulled over on that basis anytime soon.

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When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

1st: Driving without your license is a 60 dollar administrative fine, I've gotten one before. Small beans, who gives a shit.

2nd: Alaska, Connecticut, Idaho, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and West Virginia. You can get a drivers license in all of these states without being an American Citizen. You're point is completely irrelevant, you're not getting deported for not having a license its for 'suspicion' of being here illegally.

3rd. You don't think American citizens of Hispanic descent have ever been deported? You don't think the first excuse an illegal would give is "yeah I forgot my green card at home". Sure. The harassment alone is unnecessary and an invasion of privacy.

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When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

Lets get back on topic please, instead of arguing the semantics of drivers licenses in Montana....

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

^^Like they changed the law, clearing up the whole harassing normal people part?

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"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

The whole Nazi Germany thing is a great sound byte and all. The realities of the situation are of such an extent that the immigration issue is going to come full circle. With so many "American Citizens" now out of work, those jobs the illegals had been doing, you know the ones, the ones that every pundit claimed no Americans would do (which is complete bullshit by the way) now need to go to citizens. The border needs to be secured. Build a 15 foot thick, 60 ft high, 150 ft deep concrete wall if thats what it takes.

I think people need to realize that its a multifold situation now. If you are here illegally you broke the law, bye bye now, back to your own country. If I break the law, I don't get a break as a citizen, Amnesty would only foster a more emboldened attitude for more illegals to come here. You don't reward breaking the law, it doesn't work.

The illegals here have no right to be here, regardless of what they contribute.
I am an industrial electrician, before I started my company I used to travel the country and build powerplants, manufacturing facilities and the like. As a journeyman electrician I was making around 30 dollars an hour or more, including benefits.
Over half the crews non skilled labor (wire pullers, material handlers) were undocumented illegals who "DID NOT" speak English. It slowed work down actually, but more importantly, those jobs they took were 12 to 15 dollar and hour construction jobs. Now some one tell me again what Americans WOULD NOT do these types of jobs?

The politicians are feeding you, the American Citizen, A LINE OF SHIT! And, for the most part, you, THE AMERICAN CITIZEN, are buying it, hook, line and sinker. Most of you are so busy debating the Constitutionality of whether or not its right to ask for someones papers that your missing the larger picture on how this is effecting actual citizens of this nation on an economic level, which is the very basis of our economy.

Politicians want these people as a voting base. Give them amnesty and the party that supported that, their candidates get those votes. Its nothing short of a fucking joke. Any time a politician even attempts to argue anything but enforcing the law currently on the books, its up to you, THE AMERICAN CITIZEN, to vote them out of office.

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY, THESE ARE OUR JOBS, AMNESTY MY ASS. BUILD THE FUCKING WALL, GRAB A GUN AND A STAND A POST I SAY. FOR MY CHILDRENS SAKE, FOR MY CHILDRENS CHILDREN SAKE. FOR ALL OF US WHO ARE CITIZENS OF THE UNITIED STATES OF AMERICA. ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

There is no further arguement to make here. ARIZONA is doing the correct thing. Point blank, the Federal Government has failed to enforce the laws or properly man the border. States have the right to defend themselves as well. I say good for ARIZONA, keep pushing forward.

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Lord Stanley's Cup is what its all about.
Mr. Pegula, your destiny awaits you sir.

No, I don't.
Not under normal circumstances.

Why are you so upset a state has decided to enforce Federal law...they didn't just make this crap up...it's already a law.
Would the people that are upset about this law be just as upset if the Federal government suddenly started enforcing their version?

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Hold my beer and watch this...

Wow nice cop out. You use it as an argument, and as soon as I call bullshit you tell ME to get back on topic.

weak

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When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

Not really... the state in question is Arizona...Alaska, Connecticut, Idaho, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and West Virginia have nothing to do with it.

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LETS GO BUFFALO!

Which was exactly my point, thanks for the help Rut. I wasn't really understanding where arguing whether or not illegal aliens can get a drivers license in Montana had anything to do with border enforcement.....I must be weak

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

I think these tweaks are a step in the right direction. Cops are still going to find a reason to stop someone if they want to stop someone, but if it's statutorily prohibited to stop anyone for any reason, it should cut down on the abuses. They'll still happen, but they would happen with this law or not.

I'm still baffled why people are so upset about a state deciding to enfore and existing law? Really though.

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

I never had any objection to existing immigration law being enforces, nor illegals being arrested and deported.

My objection was the clauses in the law that allowed anyone to be stopped at any time and be required to prove their citizenship. Those clauses have since be tightened up as XC posted, so I have less objection to it now.

I don't normally post in the politics section, because views like those of Pants make me weary and depressed about the future.

Everything from ignorance, anti-authority, racism, nazi references, and the kitchen sink are being thrown out there, either from honest misunderstanding, over-reaction, disingenuous political agenda, to truly extremist wacko-criminalistic beliefs.

Obviously, when discussing the issue of immigrants, we will be talking about people of different races or cultures. To automatically say that an immigration law is racist is pure BULLSHIT. If there were a crush of German people entering the country illegally, bringing gun and drug trade, and siphoning tax dollars dry, I'm fairly certain there would be some effort to counter that.

Forget all of that subjective crap though. Right now there are about 12-13 MILLION illegal immigrants in the US. 80% are from Mexico or a Latin American country. These people can disregard our laws, work without being taxed, gain benefits due to their income level or language barrier, funnel their earnings away from the US, and then have children on our soil that automatically become US citizens. Their childrens' status then can allow them citizenship once the child turns 21.

In effect, the practical consequences of continuing to allow this is to give away the country over the course of a century. Mexicans and Latinos are having children at a much higher rate, and a primary motivation for illegals to enter is for the mother to give birth on US soil. The rate of illegal immigrant procreation alone will provide for a voting base of 50% of the US population within a century. Remember that a vast amount of these people (not to mention current US citizens) feel that the American southwest was stolen from Mexico, and that it's still THEIR land. We can argue history for years, but the point is that illegals DO NOT have the rightous priorities of joining this country as equally contributing citizens. A great many, if not a vast majority, believe they are justly reclaiming their homeland, one child at a time.

Right or wrong, the American southwest is now US territory, and no country on earth would stand for any group of people to slowly infiltrate and economically destroy them. Our economy is teetering on the brink as it is. If we continue to conduct business on a borrow and spend basis, and allow people to just walk right on in and siphon tax dollars and benefits from people who already pay taxes for US citizens that are actually welfare sucking PsOS, this country is doomed within a few short generations.

Amen brother.

I lament the fact that for some in this country immigration policy is an intellectual exercise and for others it has an impact in many aspects of daily life.

Race baiting and class warfare are the soup du jour though I suppose.

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Hold my beer and watch this...