Degenerate, Welfare Recipient Drug Addicts: 1

Full-Time Employee, Student and Taxpayer: 0

Warning: This will be long, but if you would like to hear how fucked up and ass backwards our government/healthcare system/ bureaucracy has become please read......

I will preface this by saying this all stems from a DUI I was pulled over for 2 months ago. I was doing 42MPH in a 35MPH Zone and was pulled over for “speeding” at 10:35 on a Thursday evening. I passed every single road sobriety test I was given, was put back in my own car to await a speeding ticket and then was taken back out of the car to be “breathalyzed” at which point I refused. I have a childhood friend who is an Assistant District Attorney here who told me NEVER to blow if you’ve been drinking because it provides definitive evidence of guilt. I refused because from 8:00 – 10:00 PM I had had a TOTAL of 4, yes REALLY 4 beers over two hours of dinner with friends from work. So, after telling the officer WHERE I was, THAT I had had 4 beers over two hours, PASSING ALL road sobriety tests and being told I was ok to wait in the car for a speeding ticket I’m now in handcuffs for refusing to blow and being taken to the police station. I’m booked for DUI with a BAC – You have to blow at the station, it doesn’t have an effect on your original refusal – and blew a .10 at 11:15PM.
Now, for anyone who doesn’t know, .10 USED to be the legal limit. A limit that was lowered to .08 within the last few years. So I had, what was four years ago, a legal BAC, and now, I’m in cuffs, after passing my road sobriety tests, clearly showing that at 6’0” and 200 lbs. 4 beers does not impair my ability to drive safely, and being charged with a FELONY DUI. I get fingerprinted, mug shot, booked, car towed (at $150) and need to call a friend at –what is by this time – 1 AM to come get me and take me home because hey, I have to work at 8 AM an hour from home.

Now here is where it gets super awesome for us tax payers. After retaining a private attorney, I am told by a judge that I can be referred (because of NO previous history) to the “Pre-Trial Diversion Program.” My lawyer explains this is a program set up for first time, low risk offenders to deal with their alcohol issues and allow their time in treatment to result in a GUARANTEED misdemeanor DUI with no option for felony. So I say, GREAT! I work 40 hours a week, come home and do HW until 11/12PM EVERY night because I also take 18 credit hours in school and only have enough money and time to make it out about twice a week. I pay ALL my bills in full, ON time and maintain a 3.86 Cumulative GPA as of last semester with two semesters to go until I graduate with a dual major in Business Management and Finance. I’m thinking whatever “program” I get put in, it’s obviously not that serious as 26 years of my track record prove.

Holy Fuck was I ever wrong. I got in for an “evaluation” from some uptight looking girl who appeared to be all of 12 years old. She tells me, after an hour of exactly what I’ve just explained, that “Clearly, you have an alcohol problem that needs to be addressed and I am recommending you for IOPS.” So I ask, what is IOPs? Well, this stands for Intensive Outpatient Services. Translation? I have to attend “rehab” classes from 5:45 PM to 7:45 PM three days a week for the next 2 months…..for PHASE 1!!!!!!! Then to two days a week for two months for Phase II followed by once a week for the remainder. Now HERE is where it gets comically interesting and circles back to the original thread topic. The following conversation ensued

Counselor: “Are you ok with this decision?”
Me: “Well, I don’t really have a choice, if this is what you recommend, this is what I have to do.”
Counselor: “Ok so how are you going to pay for this? Do you have insurance?”
Me: “No, my work doesn’t offer health insurance so I will be paying out of pocket. How much is this going to cost.”
Counselor: “Well, if you had insurance we typically charge $300 a session but since you don’t have insurance, we can do $140.”
Me: “Ok. So what do you mean by “session?” like per month? Per week?”
Counselor: “No per VISIT”
Me: “Wait, you mean I need to Pay $140 A VISIT three times a week?”
Counselor: “Yes”
Me: “Well, there is no way I can afford that……. I don’t even know anyone who can pay kind of money. You’re asking for like $1500 a month for this alone. Who can afford that?”
Counselor: “If you have a job and you can’t afford this there are other options.”
Me: “Great….what else is there? Can you bill me? My credit is perfect and I can pay, just not that much all at once.”
Counselor: “No. That’s not what I meant. I would never tell anyone to quit their job, but if you can’t afford this and you’re NOT employed, the government will cover it in full under Medicaid”

At this point I absolutely lost it. I know it didn’t do anything positive for me or my situation, but at this point I’m stuck paying for this anyway. So, once my angry Irish temper rears its head I ask her
“So you mean to tell me that if I was one of those fucking degenerate, scumbag, drug addict leeches in your lobby right now that I would get ALL of this for free?..... but because I have a job, and pay taxes to support those leeches in your lobby, that I’m going to have to be broke for three months to pay for this?”

And she looked right at me, SMUG as fuck and said “yeah that’s right. If You Just Quit Your Job The Government Will Pay For It"

I wanted to fucking MURDER this woman. She pretty much sat there, diagnosed me with something I don’t need, laughed at me about it, the proceeded to try and steal money from me and when I told her I didn’t have it, tried to bribe me to quit my job SO THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT COULD PAY MY WAY!!!!! So I call my mother, 27 years as an Inner City RN in Rochester and you know what she says?
“She wants you to quit your job because they charge the state $400 a session for patients that can’t afford to pay, they only get $300 from Insurance companies and if you don’t have insurance they try to get whatever they can.”

Essentially, for a bogus, made-up charge, this 23 year old “expert” diagnosed me as having such an alcohol problem that besides working 40 hours a week for the last 8 years, taking 18 credit hours in college the last four semesters pulling a 3.86 GPA, paying my bills on time, and staying out of trouble since birth that I need to quit my tax paying job putting money INTO the system to become one of the FUCKING waste of life scumbags you see on the street every day because it pays their fucking “addiction treatment center” three times what my tax paying citizen ass would pay…..

The system is ALREADY fucked people. Do you REALLY think dumping 3 billion a year from Obama in “Universal Healthcare” is going to make THIS and situation like it that ALREADY exist any better? I was just told to quit paying taxes so THE GOVERNMENT COULD PAY FOR MY MISTAKE!!!!!!!! AND THIS BROAD WAS DEAD ASS SERIOUS!!!!! REALLY!>?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

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"I can't really hear what Jeremy says, because I got my two Stanley Cup Rings plugging my ears...." -Patrick Roy in reference to Jeremy Roenick's trash talking

I have no way of telling you how much i agree with you.. just know that if any sane, taxpaying, law abiding person was put in that situation.. they would feel the same way as you.. what is the fucking point of working our asses of so that the taxes we PAY supports the taint of the country and WE the people that pay for it all, get completely and utterly ruined, Financially, politically, and mentally. It is completely INSANE what the politicians in this state (let alone country) are doing.. when the fuck will people wake up and vote these degenerates out of office... This is one of the main reasons I fully support Upstate and NYC splitting into two states... we aren't represented anyway...

BTW.. i believe EVERY SINGLE PERSON on welfare should be required to submit to a drug test every single month.. if you miss one test you lose your privileges for 5 years. Extreme? well to bad.. that's what should happen after the amount of fraud that takes place in the system now.

The Sev

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I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

I'm dumbfounded how you can try to spin a DWI arrest into an anti-government rant. Absolutely floored.

For starters, refusing a breathalyzer test is stupid. Your ADA friend is a moron. Refusing the roadside test is an automatic license suspension on top of what you're already going to get for driving drunk. And guess what? They still have your BAC in evidence after you blew at the station, so you did nothing but pile on yourself.

Second, .10 has NEVER been a legal BAC in New York. .10 and above has ALWAYS been felony DWI. ALWAYS. It was lowered to .08, but again that's .08 and up. You were legally drunk, plain and simple. If you blew a .10 at the station, you were probably .11 or .12 when you were pulled over. Don't try for one second to say that 4 beers 'doesn't affect you'. That's fucking bullshit. Every drunk asshole over the years that I've unwrapped from around a tree 'only had a couple' and said 'they were fine'.

I'm sorry, I would comment on the second part, but I lost it when you tried to spin this is a "bogus, made up charge". YOU WERE DRUNK. YOU GOT CAUGHT. END OF STORY. Take your punishment and shutup about it. Your employment status, GPA, and credit score don't mean shit. You broke the laws of the state of New York. Period.

Part 1: Your fault. That college kid who asked the taxi driver if he was muslim before slicing him with a knife probably "only had a few" too.

There's a difference that needs to be made in BAC and tolerance. You have a high tolerance, which makes you feel like you can act just fine, but your BAC PROVEs that you were impaired.

Part 2: I'm disgusted as well. It's a fucked up system, but the insurance companies and government are guaranteed to pay.

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How nice were you to the cop? If you passed all the sobriety tests, why did he feel the need to breathalyze you? I honestly have pretty much no knowledge on these types of situations, so any enlightenment would be nice.

Reminds me of my situation a year and a half ago.
I was pulled over in February 2009 at about 10:45 PM for going 81 in a 65, actually coming back from meeting Phil for the first time when he was in Syracuse. The cop asked me where I was coming from/going, and I told him, Buff Wild Wings/Home. Obv. he asked if I'd been drinking and I told him I had one beer when the game started (7:15), and a shot of Tequila after the game (9:45ish). Cue the sobriety tests, standing on one foot, walking the invisible balance beam, etc. Passed easily, and that was that. Dude wrote me a ticket but reduced it to a non-moving violation (cell phone) so no pts, no insurance hike because I was polite and cooperative and that was the end of it.

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

reading my post back again makes it sound like i am condoning the DUI.. know that i am not.. just agreeing with the hypocrisy of the state.

The Sev

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I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

Damn dude, could you have found a less sympathetic way to bitch about government fuck-up-edness? You were driving technically drunk, and you want us to be outraged about things that happen to you AFTER that point in the story?

I got a DUI the night before Thanksgiving last year. I was leaving a bar one block away from my house because a fight broke out and I didn't want to be in the middle of it. The cops were coming to break up the fight, I was pulling out, they pulled me over for going 40 in a 30 (which was bull...I was maybe going 15) and popped me for being over the limit. Even with the fucked up situation and feeling like I didn;t do anything, the end story is that i was drunk and was driving. My lawyer got me down to a DWAI. I did 24 hours of alcohol education and obviously being an ex substance abuse councelor made it easier for me to say what I needed to so I wouldn't be hosed.

That being said, the insurance company is in league with the government and they all get a big fat chunk of money from ya. They push to make every offender pay heavily and milk that shit. I did wrong but at the same time I paid more than if I had been dealing fucking crack or sucking dick on the corner. Here in town cops have been seen marking the tires of cars outside of bars with chalk around 11 then pulling over anyone they see stopped at a light with said chalk on their tires. It's dirty and scummy and a DUI seems to be treated like high treason now but in the end, don't drink and drive. The system us fucked and crooked but at least we know it is.

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Squanto, I agree this guy broke the laws of NYS, but the time doesn't always fit the crime. If they lower the legal limit to .01(zero tolerance), you know they will be unnecessarily changing lives(as they may be doing now on fringe charges). DUI has become big business as is anything which is tied to gov't money. This is the scariest part. When men profit from false crimes is when even the devil cries.

As for my stance on DUI, if you combat the habitual drivers, you can win. If you get 3, you're not driving anymore. My reason for not liking blanket enforcement is because I may be able to have a couple and drive, but my 21 year old niece(who's never drank before, cuz she's just turned 'legally 21') will be HAMMERED on 2. She should absolutely not be driving, yet I'm fine. OK, here's where the problem jumps in. If the officer feels I'm fine, but wonders(or is curious) as to what my BAC is gives me the 'next' test, then finds me failing. He gains prestige for the arrest for himself and his superiors. He gains revenues for his court, etc.

I decided to stop here, because I smell a shitstorm, and this is mostly rant, anyways.

Oh ya, why do we even bother with the bs 'field sobriety' test??...

If you pass the FS test, and pass the breath test, you go home...

If you fail the FS test, and pass the BA test, you go home..

Whether you pass of fail the FS test, and fail the BA test, you're going to jail?

Why not just blow into the goddamn thing to begin with ffs??? Do the officers get enjoyment from watching people being clumsy? I know 1 guy here may have escaped a charge by not getting a BA test, but that's just a cop being lazy, imo. Any cop worth a grain of salt is gonna use the BA test when he smells alcohol.

sorry.. my views on drinking and driving are simple.... there is NO reason to do it and if you get caught you have to suffer the consequences for your stupidity. reasons?

1) It is against the law and you know it. No matter the 'limit', personally i think it should be .01
2) If you've been drinking how do you really know if you're "fine"
3) It's completely reckless and stupid. How would you feel if you killed or seriously injured someone.. that is how families are destroyed.

I didn't just decide to feel this way.. my dad was a complete drunk and got several DUI or DWI which ever.. and i saw first-hand in my mid to late teens how it affected my family..

Besides if you can afford to go out and drink, you should have no problem affording a cab.. and if you can't afford a cab then simply have a DD. There is ZERO reason to drink and drive..

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I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

.01 is a little excessive, but .05 might not be a terrible idea. Problem though, is lowing the cutoff going to keep people off the roads while drunk (which should be the goal) or is it going to change little and simply result in more people getting caught and arrested?

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Proud LGBTQQ Individual

I'm sorry the insurance companies are coming down hard, but please, read this article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38509814/ns/local_news-tampa_fl/38556749

My friend and co-worker is the cousin of the wife and mother of the four men involved. The guy who hit them "just had two" as well.

Please, if you are out drinking, don't drive. Get a cab. It will save you from having to deal with the monatary problems the insurance companies will give you after a dui...or save you from worse.

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"Oh honey, I would but...I don't want to" ~ Karen Walker

BULLSHIT. It's not about fucking profits. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

It's not a 'false crime'. Talk to me when you've woken up at 3am to go to an accident scene only to find the drunk guy standing on the side of the road uninjured, and have to cut the other car up to get the passengers out. Talk to me when that drunk person walks away when the other car has a pair of fatalities.

DRUNK DRIVING IS DANGEROUS. IT IS NOT A FRINGE CHARGE. WHEN PEOPLE DRIVE DRUNK, PEOPLE DIE. Not every time, but it happens. A LOT. Do you not watch the news at all? Almost weekly you hear about a high school student somewhere who got killed by a drunk driver, or otherwise maimed. Sit at ECMC one weekend overnight, see how many drunk driving victims get flow in on Mercy Flight.

It doesn't mean SHIT if you *think* you're ok to drive, if you have some higher tolerance than others. Do your fucking homework. You may no FEEL impaired, but you're impaired. It's medically proven that your reaction time is slower, you make slower decisions, and it takes you longer to focus on things. Alcohol is a CNS depressant, it's not rocket science.

Frankly, drunk drivers aren't punished enough most of the time. They keep getting plead down, and go right back out and do it again. Trying to argue that the charge is overblown and some kind of profit center enrages me to no end.

I do agree with you that people should just blow into the thing and get it over with, but not all jurisdictions have a mobile brethalyzer in every car. Sometimes they put you through the tests to provide reasonable suspicion to bring you in to blow into the machine at the station.

You shouldn't drive after you've had a few. It's stupid. I've seen people say they're good to drive, and they go swerving. It's not right.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

East trigger, if you twist it too hard, it'll break. I never claimed DUI was a fringe charge. I was saying that if a guy has 1 or 2, and is TRULY fine, then why is he grouped in with the guy you describe as the habitual dangerous drunk? I also agreed that the plea down are what's wrong with the system. I also understand your position(because of your previous job), but I think this thing is propelled by fear, as are so many things now. Dangerous drunk driving really is a serious crime, which deserves attention in our society, but the notion 1 or 2 beers is deadly is a myth. If your friend can't handle 1 or 2, you shouldn't even be allowing him to drink.

why does everyone think its okay to have one or two? You are still drinking and driving.. and its not a myth, like squanto said its is medicaly PROVEN that your reaction time, you make slower decisions, and worse decisions.. and you think you are fine because... duh... you are UNDER THE INFLUENCE of alochol and you are not in a normal sober state of mind. I don't know why people are willing to risk it with what could potentially be at stake.. people's lives

The Sev

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I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

I, personally think that MOST people feel that when you have 4-5(or more) is when you start getting confused about when you're ok, not 1 or 2.

Anyways, I'm not saying I'm anti drunk driving prevention. Maybe a buffer zone between .05-.10 where the officer can decide. If anyone has any new ideas, then by all means.

I found this study , it kind of explains the "I feel fine" thing:
Compared to their baseline measures, the alcohol group made significantly more errors during the ascending phase of the BAC curve; moreover, this increase in errors continued during the descending phase of the BAC curve. The alcohol group also demonstrated longer reaction times during rising BACs, however, response times returned to baseline levels when BACs were declining.

"Our findings indicate that the motor component of information processing recovers during declining BACs, but it appears that the cognitive effects of the drug linger well after motor performance is back to drug-free levels," said Schweizer. "The reduction in motor impairment as BACs decrease could create the illusion of complete sobriety and prompt the undertaking of activities requiring cognitive processes that are still greatly impaired."

Why do you think its okay to drive anyway... Go out and have a blast or go out and have one beer.. either way get a ride home. And personally i don't want the laws to be under the discretion of the police.. don't be me wrong i trust and support the police but i think laws like this should be black and white.. this isn't going 5 mph over the limit or not wearing your seatbelt.. or anything like that.. this is deciding to go out and drive.. (which by its self is perfectly fine) but then deciding to drive and put other people in danger. An old teacher of mine put it this way... Your rights end where MINE begin. if you don't wanna where your seatbelt.. that's really only affecting you so go for it... but Driving under the infuence puts everyone else on the road at risk.. and you don't have the right to do that..

The Sev

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I've decided i'm going to talk in pictures as much as possible..

I'm sorry man. I'm going to get riled up about this, as it's something I'm very passionate about. When you have seen some of the alcohol related accidents and consequences that I have seen, you have a different perspective.

It's scientifically proven that the human body suffers from degradation of decision making and slower reaction times with any alcohol in the bloodstream. .02 BAC was chosen as the legal lower limit to account for certain legal medications that could register. .06 may affect you less than it affects someone else, but that doesn't change the fact it STILL affects you. Laws have to be made , and they chose the limits they chose for legitimate reasons.

Field sobriety tests do not, and can not, establish an individual's ability to operate a motor vehicle without impairment. It's complete irresponsible to assume an officer in the field can figure out if one person at .06 is 'ok' and someone else is not.

I still have nightmares about a particularly nasty accident on the 33 at the 190 split. Triple fatality, really messy if you know what I mean. Autopsy showed the driver was at .04.

Alcohol impairs driving. Period. Doesn't matter what the number is. You have alcohol in your system, you are impaired.

As I've said, I understand your passion with this topic. To me it's just another legal discussion. For that reason, I think letting this one go is the right decision.

On a side note, I think an officer's training is extremely important in his decision making quite often. While he will not always make the best decision, the idea is that most officers will make the right decision most of the time. The notion they can be perfect, or left without selective enforcement is silly.