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What best reflects your religious beliefs?
1. I'm deeply religious, and believe in God with complete faith 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
2. I'm not very religious, but I do believe in God 24%  24%  [ 9 ]
3. I'm spiritual, and believe in some form of higher power 27%  27%  [ 10 ]
4. I'm agnostic and indifferent regarding the existence of God. 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
5. I presume there is no God but remain open minded 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
6. I'm devoutly atheist, and 100% certain there is no God. 22%  22%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 37
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CriminallyVu1gar
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:31 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
End The Curse wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I am intensely spiritual, but emphatically not religious. If anything, my religious beliefs lean Wiccan.

CV, isn't Wicca an organized, polytheistic religion?

It's more towards witchcraft.


Wicca is a recognized religion, and while some sects of Wicca are into spells and withcraft, such things do not define the religion as a whole. The religion itself is very fluid with differing beliefs across sects all tied to the basic tenets of tolerance and a connection to the natural world.

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CriminallyVu1gar
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:32 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
Wicca is a loose grouping of various religious traditions - witchcraft, druidism, shamanism (some forms of it). It can be practiced either in a solitary or group environment.

Fun note - the various forms of Wicca are, to my knowledge, the only religious structure that doesn't condemn homosexuality (even Buddhism condemns it).


beat me to it, ha

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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:39 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
End The Curse wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I am intensely spiritual, but emphatically not religious. If anything, my religious beliefs lean Wiccan.

CV, isn't Wicca an organized, polytheistic religion?

It's more towards witchcraft.


Wicca is a recognized religion, and while some sects of Wicca are into spells and withcraft, such things do not define the religion as a whole. The religion itself is very fluid with differing beliefs across sects all tied to the basic tenets of tolerance and a connection to the natural world.

I know it's accepted, all I ever heard was it leans towards witchcraft and some stuff like that, I personally don't know about it anyways.

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icehound
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:39 pm 
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...if there were a 7th option (lolwut?) I'd have chosen that.

In my books, this is a question outside of the realm of (my) serious consideration or contemplation.

Other than to say "I don't care"...well, I don't actually care. I find it absurdly irrelevent.


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Crosscheck
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:07 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
mechaphil wrote:
Wicca is a loose grouping of various religious traditions - witchcraft, druidism, shamanism (some forms of it). It can be practiced either in a solitary or group environment.

Fun note - the various forms of Wicca are, to my knowledge, the only religious structure that doesn't condemn homosexuality (even Buddhism condemns it).


beat me to it, ha


Uh...no, you're both wrong...
Not only are Episcopalians (quasi Anglicans) OK with it, they do, or will have gay priests.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... ay-bishop/

Unitarians would also have no problems with it....

EDIT:
I just love this quote
Quote:
"I think Mary has a great chance," said the Rev. Brad Karelius, rector of Messiah parish in downtown Santa Ana and a senior priest in the diocese. "There is aggressive lobbying by the gay-lesbian constituency here to get a gay bishop.

"Her biggest challenge -- I'm saying this as a lifelong Californian -- is the culture. This is the most religiously diverse area in the world . . . and I don't know how East Coast formalities would work here."

So her being gay is totally fine...they have reservations that's she's from the North-East :lol:

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mechaphil
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:11 pm 
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Like I said, to the best of my knowledge. Somehow, and this is a total brain-fart, I completely forgot about the furor about homosexual bishops in the Episcopalian denomination.

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ItsMe
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:33 pm 
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This is a subject I've been struggling with for the past few years. I am an intensely spiritual person and respect the beliefs of others. I suppose what ever works for the individual is the best thing for them and not necessarily good for someone else. We each must find our own path and be willing to deviate from it when it is right.

That being said, I believe that some higher power, be it a collective of spirits or a single entity, has somehow, at some point in our humanoid evolution, given us a spirit; a life force which cannot be destroyed. Perhaps there are many of these forces doing things, perhaps not. I dont dwell on it since that will be proven or dis-proven when I die. For me, I believe I have encountered the presence of some sort of entities. Again, whether or not they are past human spirits or some dimensional drifts of alien thoughts, I dont know and dont particularly care since I cannot prove the existence and it is a private encounter. I find the passion of cultures about religion immensely fascinating; How closely related each religion in each historical age along with the creation myths of totally different cultures quite fascinating. I believe the need for some sort of organized social moral code is a necessary; perhaps this is an innate trait. Natural selection may have made this necessary since societies without these rules would cease to exist. We need a divine threat of mortal punishment to keep us (by in large) from destroying ourselves. (IE, you dropped a rock on my head and now I'll kill you and your family.....ummmmm,,,,,hmmmm....) Anyway, That may explain why so many different religions from isolated ancient cultures have developed seemingly without any intercultural intervention. OR perhaps since our entire species (homo sapien) seems to have one common ancestor which lived in Africa some 200,000 years ago, the concepts of religion started there and was somehow passed along the migration routes...who knows. All I know is I have many questions which will go unanswered and for now, I believe this way. Perhaps in years to come, I'll believe differently and for now, someone elses beliefs work for them. It doesnt mean I wont have a drink with them, in fact I will become richer for the different outlook. I welcome the diversity.

ETC, hang in there. It is difficult to deal with as I know first hand...many of us do, yet how difficult for him to be narrow and hopefully he will become tolerant. My family has to an extent.

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Last edited by ItsMe on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wozniak
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:38 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
I was raised Lutheran, I do not follow the religion or agree with any of it. I go to church on Christmas Eve because candles are pretty.

I am intensely spiritual, but emphatically not religious. If anything, my religious beliefs lean Wiccan.

nice

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End The Curse
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:16 pm 
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ItsMe wrote:
ETC, hang in there. It is difficult to deal with as I know first hand...many of us do, yet how difficult for him to be narrow and hopefully he will become tolerant. My family has to an extent.

Thanks, man. I was inspired by this thread to have a talk with him on my drive home from work. It's really, really been eating at me lately dealing with the rejection, and clearing the air really seemed to help resolve some misunderstandings. He even said he wanted us to come and visit for a weekend, so now I KNOW there must be a God. ;)

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Van_Da_Man
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:22 pm 
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I believe that there is one god, who is probably a mix of all the religions spanning the globe but portrayed in different ways who probably isn't as involved as we would like but hey, free will right?

I'm not as religious as I would like, but that's because I'm so lazy i'd avoid eating if I could.

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ItsMe
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:54 pm 
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End The Curse wrote:
ItsMe wrote:
ETC, hang in there. It is difficult to deal with as I know first hand...many of us do, yet how difficult for him to be narrow and hopefully he will become tolerant. My family has to an extent.

Thanks, man. I was inspired by this thread to have a talk with him on my drive home from work. It's really, really been eating at me lately dealing with the rejection, and clearing the air really seemed to help resolve some misunderstandings. He even said he wanted us to come and visit for a weekend, so now I KNOW there must be a God. ;)


Great news...a round for the bar! For my family, who is super religious, we have begun to co-exist on a level of silence about religion, politics, and cultural preferences. Perhaps it is simply accepting each other as people instead of acceptance as groups.

Good luck!!!!!!

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Sabres2Sabres
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:03 pm 
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Somewhere between 4, 5, and 6. Don't believe there is a god or "higher power," and there's nothing that would really make me think otherwise. But also indifferent - I don't really care. People are free to believe whatever they want - what annoys me is when they feel the need to push it onto others.


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Sk8haggard9
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:44 am 
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I used to be Christian, but after going through many philosophy, history, and evolution courses in college I have completely changed my beliefs to not believe in any divinity. I purely believe we were brought here through the randomness and luck of science. Evolution, imo, proves that we are a random species in the middle of a chain of species, as evolution is an ongoing process.

I find meaning in life through the thought of how lucky we really are to be here and how amazing it is that evolution gave us the ability to even have that thought.



anyway, if there is a divine, higher being... I doubt he/she would be horrid enough to not accept non-followers of his/her religion. Almost everyone is their faith because of influences from society and parents. Would you tell me that a god who is righteous would not allow non-believers into his "heaven" due to influences in the world that the individual could not control?



But I hate the fact the because I'm am an atheist and believe in the most believable of all belief theories (as it is a natural science unlike the others) that I constantly have to live under Christian rules.

Btw, this is why I, as an atheist, care about relegions, as they consistently oppress us on a daily basis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt ... r_embedded


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fly as hale
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:57 am 
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Option number 3 describes my views pretty well. I find religion pretty interesting, and I've always enjoyed learning about the basic fundamentals and origins of all the various religions out there. That being said, it's truly a shame what religion has made certain people/groups succumb to in this world.

That's all I have to say about that.

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Howie Hodge
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:06 am 
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If "God" created man in his image, then God had a gay side. Any religion that excludes gays or bisexuals is a false religion to me. I am far from gay; but have an acceptance, if not embracement of them, regardless.

Too many "religious" people have acted contrary to biblical preachings over the course of history. Sorry folks; both Hitler and Stalin came from very religious families...

If there is a "God", he is more of a Butterfly Collector than a being who places a vested interest in our behaviors.....

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Sabresfansince1980
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:08 am 
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Through my German background I was brought up Lutheran. I went to a Lutheran grade school and went to church, studied hard and knew the bible pretty well. I was a good christian until I gained enough knowledge and learned how to follow through with being a critical thinker. I have always been a skeptic, and it was just a matter of growing up and becoming more confident in both my thought processes and the results I came to. So at age 14 I didn't necessarily become an atheist, I just realized that I always was an atheist.

Nature is my god, science is my faith, biology explains what others think are miracles. Religion is a man made explanation of things that aren't fully understood, softening the cold hard reality that we will all die and decay into the earth. A lot of people can't handle that, and I imagine that early man also struggled with that thought, along with most of nature's many challenges. Religion actually makes perfect sense, in that it is nothing more than an invented coping mechanism for the hardships of life and the reality of death.

Unfortunately, it has also morphed into a divisive tool for both control over the masses and the instigation of wars. This has nothing to do with my personal rejection of religion or lack of belief, but I would like to see (imagine rather) a world/country/land/neighborhood that was free of religion. Of course, some other belief system, world view, or simple opinion would divide us, causing the same as above.

Anyway, I'm an atheist that agrees with many religious values as long as they fall under "doing the right thing". That is the easiest rule to live by, I just don't believe in an after life or any god. Having a religious background allows me to respect others' beliefs, and my Catholic wife and I never have issues between us or our daughter. She can teach her what she wants, and I'll do likewise. My daughter can decide for herself whenever she's ready.

This topic reminds me how short life is, and that I need to start having more fun. Time to go out for beer and hookers!!!


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Bauter88
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:45 am 
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For me. No god. Be your own god, that way when god lets you down you can only get mad at yourself.

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acrossthelines
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:03 am 
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I am a Christian. Also, after typing up the rest of this, long post is long.

I was raised in a Christian household, but when I was young, my father was not the greatest example, to say the least (there were only moments then; he is different now, although he still has a short fuse; I am very glad that my youngest brothers will never know what he once was, though it is odd for me because I cannot seem to adjust what I think of him to the current image, and he doesn't understand why it's so difficult to do that... anyway, just wanted to say that he's different now, because he deserves credit for that). Because of him, I can remember thinking from a very young age about the disconnect between what I heard every week and what my father was like; I was maybe three when I started paying attention in that way. I didn't yet realize that there was a difference between simply claiming to believe and follow something and actually doing so. We went to church every Sunday and all that jazz, though I would say that a good 75+% of churchgoers are only there for the image, or for something to do, or for a way to maintain some kind of social life when they have nothing else. That's not true of my childhood church, though... They're wonderful people, and it's not at all a typical church... For one thing, it met in a barn. But that is a non-sequitur, though one i feel I should mention so as not to do an unkindness to them.

When I was ten, I began questioning everything. By the time I was twelve, the idea of Christianity completely repulsed me; I saw within it too many contradictions and cruelties. I still tried, though, to hold onto it, because by that point I needed some stability; I had a lot of anger and rage, along with depression that manifested in doing everything self-destructive that a young adolescent can do, minus the things that I did not have access to. Honestly, a couple of them still follow me because they became addictions, in time, and those thoughts and desires are still there every single day. Despite that, though, looking back at things that I wrote then, I still maintained a rational viewpoint. That core never left.

Aaaanyway. I still tried to hold onto it, but I was lying to myself and to others, even as i did that. I grew more and more disenfranchised, particularly because of the youth group I was attending at the time. I saw their gimmicks and felt the loneliness of not having anyone to talk to within that group because I was too different and wanted none of it, not one bit of fitting into that mold. I could not at all relate to that mindset anymore, and I still can't and hopefully never will.

For all intents and purposes, I was an agnostic for quite a while. My intense curiosity got the better of me, though, and my thinking changed to the point that I decided to give everything a chance. I read about Islam and purchased books written by both atheist and Christian intellectuals. My worldview throughout this time remained a Christian one, though I did not realize that because I saw Christianity mainly as the Western world sees it today, as demonstrated by the "Christian" hypocrites that seem to be ubiquitous. I saw after reading books written by Christian intellectuals that all that time, my thinking had never truly changed; I had simply rejected modern "Christianity" as practiced in the mainstream, and I will never again accept it.

I became a Christian of my own accord because through years of thought (though I was very young, I admit; but I was far from stupid) and research, I slowly made an intellectual commitment to Christianity. I still frequently purchase books by both Christian and atheist authors, and I still find the ones written by Christian authors to make far more sense and to be more cohesive. I have also found, and this is a bit of a non-sequitur, that every atheist book I've read (lol atheist book; as if inanimate objects can be atheist or Deist or Muslim :P ) rejects mainly the same modern caricature of Christianity that I do.... I find myself agreeing with those authors an awful lot when it comes to that (Dawkins, Hitchens, etc.)... But they don't even come close to attacking actual Christianity, or the Christian worldview... It amuses me, if I'm completely honest... Anyway, I've never met anyone else who's actually read both sides; most merely go by the concrete things they observe in others' lives, and only read literature that they agree with. I was and am an odd one. Often I wish I were more vocal in threads like these... There are so many misconceptions stated in them, that I fully understand and once held myself... I always want so badly to respond to some, but I am usually too afraid of having it turn into eight other people versus myself, essentially, because I have spent more than enough time here to know that I am the only person who either thinks a certain way or has certain knowledge about different topics. PMs are good, basically.

I have remained a Christian because through Christ, I have found life. There is not happiness or glory to be found in a relationship with Him, but there is peace and a deep kindness and graciousness. There is beauty. For now, I attend a church while I'm at school; I don't attend my parents' church while at home because the current one contains the same disingenuousness that I've seen at almost every one I've been to. The one here has genuine people, though, who are deeply caring and loving, and who care for the local community in a way that not many other churches do, that I have witnessed. Following Christ is a commitment to gentleness, compassion, and rigorous intellectual thought and discussion, and most churches do not follow that at all because, frankly, the vast majority are committed instead to normalcy, obedience, and hypocrisy and contain few, if any, Christians. I would not at all mind moving to San Francisco and starting up a home church in that area...

I intend on raising my children to be questioning and to embrace both doubt and faith, simultaneously. I don't ever want them to be mindless, or to have a vague sense of faith purely because it is tradition. I want them to truly believe whatever they believe wholeheartedly, and to follow it... I'll be willing to answer any questions they have in full and direct them to research it and think about it for themselves if I cannot answer (though I'll ask them for "updates" on their research to make sure they're looking at credible things :P ). They will never be mindless followers of an egotistical pastor. Never, ever. And my love for them will be unconditional; every child, every person, needs that, and if they choose not to follow Christ and receive it from Him, I will still give it to them, as their parent. I am sick of the portrayal of Christians as anti-intellectual, anti-thinking morons and stupid hicks. I wish those who think that of all of us would stop listening to what is said to them by vehemently anti-Christian people and stop looking at the media portrayal and stop looking at the hypocrisy rampant in many churches and just..... Sigh. I don't know. But I'm sick of it. I wish they'd talk to me, or to my friends, on a deeper level. It's not true, and I fully reject that brand of "Christianity" and its insular, judgmental bubble, just as much as they do. I just... I don't know. It hurts, but then on another level I don't mind; I know who and how I am, and I know what my relationship with Christ is, and I certainly agree with them in many ways, sooooo. I often just chuckle.

My children will also be raised on music written primarily by men who are now deceased and on classic, thought-provoking literature. :D I will read to them every day, until they ask me to stop because they are too old. :lol: I will also be sad but will understand if they don't enjoy discussion and debate. :P

Anyway, yeah. There you have it. Wasn't very eloquent at all because... well. I don't know. This is the first time I've said all of this here. I figured, two pages in and there hasn't been even the start of a flame war yet. Guess I'll comment for once, instead of just voting. :lol:

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BagBoy
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:51 am 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
Religion is a man made explanation of things that aren't fully understood, softening the cold hard reality that we will all die and decay into the earth. A lot of people can't handle that, and I imagine that early man also struggled with that thought, along with most of nature's many challenges. Religion actually makes perfect sense, in that it is nothing more than an invented coping mechanism for the hardships of life and the reality of death.

This perfectly describes how I feel.

Picture a day in ancient Norway as Sven and Olga return to their hut from the fields. Suddenly there is a tremendous crack of thunder.

Olga: (terrified) Sven, what was that horrible noise?!?!
Sven: What? Oh, that? That was ummm......Thor, yeah Thor, that's it. You know...Thor...the mighty thunder god.

I believe in god, but my god is atheist!

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Captain Pants
 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:41 pm 
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"I'm not religious, but I am spiritual... I'm not honest, but you're interesting"

I let go of old superstitions and have chosen to embrace logic and reason. I do not contort my life to conform to some man in a robe who claims to be better than me, especially since that man lacks any shred -- however minute -- of evidence to support him

guess where I voted

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