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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:24 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sabretooth wrote:
Who is the dimwit who gave away the puck on the only goal allowed in the game?


The dimwit has a name. Luke Adam. He gave the puck away, Sekera didn't do a good enough job tying up Crosby, and the forwards didn't do a good enough job preventing Dupuis from skating down the slot unmolested.

There is plenty of blame to pass around on the goal.



Ummm I'm pretty sure molesting an opponent will get you 2 minutes...


If 2 minutes saves a goal, I'm all for it.

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slesh
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:47 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
slesh wrote:
I've spent the last 3 + seasons doing so Squanto. I make no apologies about it, I openly admit when I am wrong (as you have seen, time and again from me by the way), but in this I do not believe I am.
But as this season progresses, the old cliche's I hear, "Don't make a trade for trades sake", "I am confident in our players", "Lindy will turn it around", etc....etc.....just don't hold any water what so ever considering they make the playoffs once in 3 seasons and looking alot like its going to be 4 seasons is more than enough reasoning to levy criticism where it is due.


I can cherry pick stats too and say they've made the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years.

I'm not suggesting that they don't need changes. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be criticized for some things.

I am saying that watching the waiver wire and assuming that every player that hits it is better than someone already here is just dumb.

Sure you can state that about the playoffs, but then, I'll just counter with a common sense statement that will give even further clarity to the discussion as well as more evidence to my belief:

Drury and Briere were on this team for the 2 seasons that you included in the extended 3 of 5 going on 6 season stat. That is clear cut the evidence needed to prove that Darcy Regier had a franchise crippling moment that the organization has not recovered from.

Hell, I'll go even farther and state, on a factual basis, that if anyone of us would have made this type of fuck up without correcting it over a 3 going on 4 year period, or even "ATTEMPTING" to correct it we would have been fired, hell, not only fired, but black balled from the league itself.

This is serious shit we are speaking on now, not some he said, she said.
This GM is fucking down right horrible and ultimately responsible for the demise of the current situation. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Darcy Regier fully deserves every insult thrown his way, and 10 times more if you ask many fans such as myself.

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ironyisadeadscene
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:59 pm 
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yeesh. people have their own opinions.

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CriminallyVu1gar
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:03 pm 
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slesh wrote:
Squanto wrote:
slesh wrote:
I've spent the last 3 + seasons doing so Squanto. I make no apologies about it, I openly admit when I am wrong (as you have seen, time and again from me by the way), but in this I do not believe I am.
But as this season progresses, the old cliche's I hear, "Don't make a trade for trades sake", "I am confident in our players", "Lindy will turn it around", etc....etc.....just don't hold any water what so ever considering they make the playoffs once in 3 seasons and looking alot like its going to be 4 seasons is more than enough reasoning to levy criticism where it is due.


I can cherry pick stats too and say they've made the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years.

I'm not suggesting that they don't need changes. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be criticized for some things.

I am saying that watching the waiver wire and assuming that every player that hits it is better than someone already here is just dumb.

Sure you can state that about the playoffs, but then, I'll just counter with a common sense statement that will give even further clarity to the discussion as well as more evidence to my belief:

Drury and Briere were on this team for the 2 seasons that you included in the extended 3 of 5 going on 6 season stat. That is clear cut the evidence needed to prove that Darcy Regier had a franchise crippling moment that the organization has not recovered from.

Hell, I'll go even farther and state, on a factual basis, that if anyone of us would have made this type of fuck up without correcting it over a 3 going on 4 year period, or even "ATTEMPTING" to correct it we would have been fired, hell, not only fired, but black balled from the league itself.

This is serious shit we are speaking on now, not some he said, she said.
This GM is fucking down right horrible and ultimately responsible for the demise of the current situation. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Darcy Regier fully deserves every insult thrown his way, and 10 times more if you ask many fans such as myself.



How the hell can you claim that a hypothetical situation has factual basis?
Regeir did attempt to correct the Briere and Drury losses by singing Vanek. If you don't like that contract, you can blame yourself because it was a reactionary move done to escape criticism from fans such as yourself.

I honestly don't understand what your crowd expects. I think that everyone agrees that the biggest need is a superstar scorer to compliment and take some of the pressure off of Thomas "Atlas" Vanek. That is not a type of player you obtain in free agency. Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Alexander Semin, Nicklas Backstrom, The Sedins, Patrick Sharp, Patrick Kane, Jarome Iginla, Evgeni Malkin, Steven Stamkos, Eric Staal ...these are all home grown guys. (I mean seriously do you want Hossa, Kovalchuk, or Gaborik on the team anyways?)

Not spending to the cap is obnoxious and kind of stupid yes, but isn't that a reflection on Quinn and Golisano, and not Darcy?

Regeir is about 50-50 the past few years. Drury was beelining for sackfuls of dollars in NYC no matter what he says. Not signing Briere was a mistake, but it would have torpedoed our 07-08 season anyways because he was either hurt or terrible that year. Montador and Leopold were great signings. Morrisonn is so-so. Craig Rivet was playing very well until the past season and a half. Jaroslav Spacek was the best defensemen on the team for a while. Moore, Bernier, and Torres were busts, yes, but how do you foresee Moore hurting his wrist or Torres not giving a shit?

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X-pensfan
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:13 pm 
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i would be happy with a new GM just to end these tireless debates, even a worse one

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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:34 pm 
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slesh wrote:
Drury and Briere were on this team for the 2 seasons that you included in the extended 3 of 5 going on 6 season stat. That is clear cut the evidence needed to prove that Darcy Regier had a franchise crippling moment that the organization has not recovered from.

Hell, I'll go even farther and state, on a factual basis, that if anyone of us would have made this type of fuck up without correcting it over a 3 going on 4 year period, or even "ATTEMPTING" to correct it we would have been fired, hell, not only fired, but black balled from the league itself.

This is serious shit we are speaking on now, not some he said, she said.
This GM is fucking down right horrible and ultimately responsible for the demise of the current situation. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Darcy Regier fully deserves every insult thrown his way, and 10 times more if you ask many fans such as myself.


Yep, Drury and Briere were on those teams. Who was the GM that acquired Drury and Briere in the first place?

Darcy Regier.


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sabresEH
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:56 pm 
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powerplayer wrote:
sabresEH wrote:
But when Miller's healthy instead of sitting on the bench Enroth goes down and gets more playing time.
I can see how the team would feel better with him in net. Lalime is just very slow now-a-days.


If you'll remember, when Lalime went down to Portland to get some warmup games last year, he game back and played well too.

How quickly they forget. :(

Let's have Enroth sit out a few weeks, then be thrown in---and see how he does.

I do remember that actually, and its unfortunate we can't continue to do that with him. But since we can do it with Enroth and he has more talent right now, it's more logical to go with him.

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mechaphil
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:35 am 
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Hey you guys, remember when the lockout ended and the Sabres were projected to finish in the bottom of the league but the rules being closely called was a big factor in them being so successful? I don't know why I'm pointing this out, but keep it in mind.

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slesh
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:47 am 
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Squanto wrote:
slesh wrote:
Drury and Briere were on this team for the 2 seasons that you included in the extended 3 of 5 going on 6 season stat. That is clear cut the evidence needed to prove that Darcy Regier had a franchise crippling moment that the organization has not recovered from.

Hell, I'll go even farther and state, on a factual basis, that if anyone of us would have made this type of fuck up without correcting it over a 3 going on 4 year period, or even "ATTEMPTING" to correct it we would have been fired, hell, not only fired, but black balled from the league itself.

This is serious shit we are speaking on now, not some he said, she said.
This GM is fucking down right horrible and ultimately responsible for the demise of the current situation. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Darcy Regier fully deserves every insult thrown his way, and 10 times more if you ask many fans such as myself.


Yep, Drury and Briere were on those teams. Who was the GM that acquired Drury and Briere in the first place?

Darcy Regier.

Squanto, I have repeatedly stated that yes, he has the ability to build a contending team, we've seen it before. Specifically with the 05 to 07 squads.
That was never in doubt.
He did however, manage to muck that up heavily, that also, can surely never be in doubt.
He hasn't made any significant changes in the past 3 going on 4 seasons now. That as well, can never be in doubt.

Many fans, including myself have been calling him out for the lack of addressing the glaring needs this team has had since D/B left.
In particular the last season in a half.
Whats the game plan here? Build solely through the draft? If this is the case he's not very good at it, and thats across all 13 years he's been the GM. He had to bring in D/B to make the team competitive, his drafting didn't do it alone. But thats what we've been stuck with these last 3 going on 4 complete seasons now.

This team could compete, no one is saying overhaul the entire roster, 2 or 3 key moves, some addition by subtraction combined with just plain ole addition could do it. But to not move at all is completely ridiculous at this point and time.

This team needs help, and it needs help with scoring, something I've been bitching about for 2 + seasons now.
Its not so much the overall numbers (top 10 team in goals) or individual group stats (defense is top scoring defense in league) as it is the consistency and clutch scorers that are missing.
Without mentioning Edmonton, Calgary or whoever a trade partner can be (because for all I know it could be TBL, St. L, Was, Van, who knows really) Its painfully clear yet again this season that we aren't going to ride a hot goaltender to serious contention.
It was nice that Miller was stellar last season, but it reminds me so much of the Hasek era, lets ride him and if something happens to him or he has an average season, then it just doesn't work mentality is old news for this club.

Changes needed to be made in the off season, at last seasons deadline, the off season prior to that and so on and Darcy Regier I would suspect is having difficulty doing so becuase of the reputation he has garnered as a GM in dealing with players.
Its my opinion, yes, but it is a viable one, none the less. Theories are just that, and I have 0 confidence that he can repeat the pickup of D/B, for a combination of reasons, #1 of which is the fact that he picks up dead beats at the deadline for 2nd round pick (its becoming an annual event now) and does nothing to address some of the obvious holes performance wise this roster has.

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slesh
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:41 am 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
slesh wrote:
Squanto wrote:
slesh wrote:
I've spent the last 3 + seasons doing so Squanto. I make no apologies about it, I openly admit when I am wrong (as you have seen, time and again from me by the way), but in this I do not believe I am.
But as this season progresses, the old cliche's I hear, "Don't make a trade for trades sake", "I am confident in our players", "Lindy will turn it around", etc....etc.....just don't hold any water what so ever considering they make the playoffs once in 3 seasons and looking alot like its going to be 4 seasons is more than enough reasoning to levy criticism where it is due.


I can cherry pick stats too and say they've made the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years.

I'm not suggesting that they don't need changes. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be criticized for some things.

I am saying that watching the waiver wire and assuming that every player that hits it is better than someone already here is just dumb.

Sure you can state that about the playoffs, but then, I'll just counter with a common sense statement that will give even further clarity to the discussion as well as more evidence to my belief:

Drury and Briere were on this team for the 2 seasons that you included in the extended 3 of 5 going on 6 season stat. That is clear cut the evidence needed to prove that Darcy Regier had a franchise crippling moment that the organization has not recovered from.

Hell, I'll go even farther and state, on a factual basis, that if anyone of us would have made this type of fuck up without correcting it over a 3 going on 4 year period, or even "ATTEMPTING" to correct it we would have been fired, hell, not only fired, but black balled from the league itself.

This is serious shit we are speaking on now, not some he said, she said.
This GM is fucking down right horrible and ultimately responsible for the demise of the current situation. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Darcy Regier fully deserves every insult thrown his way, and 10 times more if you ask many fans such as myself.



How the hell can you claim that a hypothetical situation has factual basis?
Regeir did attempt to correct the Briere and Drury losses by singing Vanek. If you don't like that contract, you can blame yourself because it was a reactionary move done to escape criticism from fans such as yourself.

I honestly don't understand what your crowd expects. I think that everyone agrees that the biggest need is a superstar scorer to compliment and take some of the pressure off of Thomas "Atlas" Vanek. That is not a type of player you obtain in free agency. Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Alexander Semin, Nicklas Backstrom, The Sedins, Patrick Sharp, Patrick Kane, Jarome Iginla, Evgeni Malkin, Steven Stamkos, Eric Staal ...these are all home grown guys. (I mean seriously do you want Hossa, Kovalchuk, or Gaborik on the team anyways?)

Not spending to the cap is obnoxious and kind of stupid yes, but isn't that a reflection on Quinn and Golisano, and not Darcy?

Regeir is about 50-50 the past few years. Drury was beelining for sackfuls of dollars in NYC no matter what he says. Not signing Briere was a mistake, but it would have torpedoed our 07-08 season anyways because he was either hurt or terrible that year. Montador and Leopold were great signings. Morrisonn is so-so. Craig Rivet was playing very well until the past season and a half. Jaroslav Spacek was the best defensemen on the team for a while. Moore, Bernier, and Torres were busts, yes, but how do you foresee Moore hurting his wrist or Torres not giving a shit?

I feel confident I can make that statemen CV given my 25 years in the work force and experiencing what I have.
I just cross over what I see daily and apply it to an NHL GM's position.
At some point and time, the inescapable conclusion has to be reached that Darcy Regier, as a GM, has not performed to a satisfactory level.

And I take into consideration that he guided the team through the darkest days of the franchise (bankruptcy and ownership change over). I give Regier credit where credit is due. He wasn't spectacular as a GM during those dark days, but he did his job. But then, if I can give him credit and kudos for doing those things, as well as picking up D/B, drafting Myers/Ennis/Vanek/Roy/Pomminville, I can also assert criticism where it is due as well. Zagrapan, Novotny, Kryukov (?), Heisten, then there is the multitude of 2nd rounders we've had over the years as well.
Or how about giving away 2nd rounders to get guys like Moore or Torres.
Lets look at his off season moves. Nothing to see there of significance since D/B.
And on and on it goes.

I asked myself honestly, would I have a job if I performed overall the way Regier has at GM.
Definitely not, since jobs are performanced based situations.
Regier happens to have a fantastic relationship with the President of Hockey Operations (Larry Quinn), so he maintains his job, thats not what happens in a majority of real world situations.

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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:01 am 
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Sigh....you're totally missing my point.

Has Darcy made some mistakes? Absolutely. Does he deserve criticism for those mistakes? Yes.

Does he deserve criticism for not picking up a marginal player off waivers just because he was there? Absolutely fucking not.


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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Honestly, the moves Darcy has made these past few years got our team from being stranded at the cap ceiling to well below the cap, and he got rid of, Kotalik, Max, Paille, MacArthur, and plenty of other useless players and replaced them with more efficient players.

He's done a good enough job to reduce the money tied up into useless guys, because really no one is grossly overpaid on the team, well Connolly is the exception to that. And blame him all you want for Vanek, but he didn't give that contract out.

He has also drafted Myers, Ennis, Gerbe, Adam, Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Miller, Enroth, Kassian, and plenty more.

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No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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ironyisadeadscene
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Honestly, the moves Darcy has made these past few years got our team from being stranded at the cap ceiling to well below the cap, and he got rid of, Kotalik, Max, Paille, MacArthur, and plenty of other useless players and replaced them with more efficient players.

He's done a good enough job to reduce the money tied up into useless guys, because really no one is grossly overpaid on the team, well Connolly is the exception to that. And blame him all you want for Vanek, but he didn't give that contract out.

He has also drafted Myers, Ennis, Gerbe, Adam, Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Miller, Enroth, Kassian, and plenty more.


yes, but hes also drafted plenty of first round busts. i mean, it happens though. he didnt get rid of max though, max because a UFA.

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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:44 pm 
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True but there are plenty of first round busts who never made it in this league.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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ironyisadeadscene
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:49 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
True but there are plenty of first round busts who never made it in this league.


its just frustrating when ya look at it.

i dont blame darcy, i dont hate him. but i want to win. sometimes it doesnt work out and you need to try someone else. and that point is rapidly approaching. like it or now.

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slesh
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
Sigh....you're totally missing my point.

Has Darcy made some mistakes? Absolutely. Does he deserve criticism for those mistakes? Yes.

Does he deserve criticism for not picking up a marginal player off waivers just because he was there? Absolutely fucking not.

I got your point Squanto, and I already am aware that you do not believe he should catch flak for not picking up O'Sullivan. I am on the opposite end of the spectrum is all. Not only do I believe he deserves that criticism, but to not atleast try to bring this guy in, for a dirt cheap price I might add, that may potentially increase scoring production is a complete and utter failure on the part of Regier.

Would O'Sullivan have produced anything here in Buffalo?
We'll never know will we. And without any type of move by Regier we can fully expect to see the same results on the ice over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:47 pm 
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Where are your threads on ever other no-name player that has hit the waiver wire in the last week that you knew nothing about? Why are you not complaining about Darcy not picking those players up?

Then again, if he did pick up O'Sullivan or anyone else, and it didn't work out, you'd just crucify him for making a bad move.


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slesh
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
Where are your threads on ever other no-name player that has hit the waiver wire in the last week that you knew nothing about? Why are you not complaining about Darcy not picking those players up?

Then again, if he did pick up O'Sullivan or anyone else, and it didn't work out, you'd just crucify him for making a bad move.

I think your over reaching, don't you agree.
Many of my threads on players outside of the organization (minus Penner and a couple of others via "TRADES" not waivers) are geared to scorers.
You don't see me cheerleading for a 3rd or 4th liner to often, maybe Cullen at Center, I think that was about it.
Which wouldn't have been a bad deal at all for Buffalo.

Just as you attempt to make your point, and I listen to it, I attempt to make mine.
You are tired of hearing the Darcy bashing, I understand that. I, however, am not done bashing him.

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X-pensfan
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Squanto wrote:
Sabretooth wrote:
Who is the dimwit who gave away the puck on the only goal allowed in the game?


The dimwit has a name. Luke Adam. He gave the puck away, Sekera didn't do a good enough job tying up Crosby, and the forwards didn't do a good enough job preventing Dupuis from skating down the slot unmolested.

There is plenty of blame to pass around on the goal.



Ummm I'm pretty sure molesting an opponent will get you 2 minutes...


If 2 minutes saves a goal, I'm all for it.


What is the official penalty signal for Molesting?

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mechaphil
 Post subject: Re: PIT vs BUF 11/24
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:35 pm 
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I think it's a handsy motion haha

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