Yes.

This is how it shakes out. Hockey Western New York LLC owns the Buffalo Sabres, Buffalo Bandits, and operates HSBC Arena, leasing the arena from Buffalo and Erie County.

When the Sabres report numbers to Forbes, it's been said in the business community that they are only reporting numbers for the Sabres segment of the business. Assuming that is correct, and I think it is, Hockey Western New York itself doesn't lose money because the Bandits and the arena are reported to be very profitable.

Thats how it can look like they lose money every year, yet still be very healthy financially.

i even assume that 14 is a high number. but you dont own a team to make money, i think. its nothing big they lost money, just most teams arnt a huge cash flow generator, shockingly.

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You can make money while losing money. It's all accounting methods and business structure.

oh yeah, for sure. im sure with everything combined, they pull in a nice racket.

the sabres should really raise ticket prices, even if its ever so slightly.

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No, I looked at every team's profits, and only 14 made an actual profit, some were under one million and most were under 5 million, and only 7 of those teams earned more than 15 million.

Yea, BTG operates HSBC arena and all events.
"The team is owned by Rich List member Tom Golisano, who operates HSBC Arena where it nets several million dollars a year from concerts and other non-hockey events. "

Forbes only lists what the Sabres take in, not what he also makes from those events.

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They're pretty lauded from what ive read for their variable ticket price setup. Let's them have a higher average ticket price without actually raising prices.

Then again they'd make more money if they had a smaller season ticket base but still sold out.

ah yes, but you only said the sabres, so i corrected you.

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i mentioned this in another thread, but tom, above the last row of seats of the second deck, there is just a wall. why could they not throw in some sky boxes? is there simply not a demand? that could bring in some HUGE funds. or it could be that the structure simply wont allow it.

what the lease rate of the luxury boxes?

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This motto was hanging on the wall in Enron's lunchroom.

I feel really good about having apparently made more money myself last year than many NHL teams!

And how do the Bandits make money? No TV and their tickets are really cheap. If you buy a family four pack, you get 4 tix, food, drinks, a hat and a brand new compact car. I don't get the accounting.

Do their players play for beer?

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't understand what you're trying to say now mike. You've lost me.

I only put the Sabres rankings there, then under it I put the full list. I really don't know what you're trying to say since 14 teams from 09-10 season made operating profits, and the Sabres weren't one of them.

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The Bandits have extremely low expenses. Players don't make that much. They all have other jobs.

http://www.kaycircle.com/How-much-does- ... lary-Range

NLL players make about the same as someone who works in a Fast food place.

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im just correcting your statement that the sabres make money. there are other variables and overall i think the whole package (sabres/bandits/hsbc arena events) make money, but the sabres alone do not. just correcting is all. alot of teams lose money annually. its not a major cash flow generator, is all.

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That's not empty space. That's the club level with food and stuff. They've recently added seats there too. It used to be setup so that anyone could sit there who had a club level seat. They added ticketed seating there along that rail.

Luxury boxes are around $125k for a year, and then you have to buy tickets to any events you use the box for. You have to buy 12 or 16 every time, I don't recall which. I think it's 16. Something like $200ish a pop.

Ok, I see. Yea, the Sabres operate at a loss, just like 15 other teams in the league, but with revenue sharing all teams earn it back.

And since this only shows teams and not the company's that own them, we don't know which of those extra 16 teams earn profits from other events.

The major problem with a lot of the teams is market size, and TV deals. The Rangers generate 15 million on MSG alone. So it's nice to have a TV deal in place.

Pittsburgh is 9th on the list in team value, and they don't even make a profit.

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are we talking about the right spot? i mean the seats at the VERY VERY top of the arena. like where they hang signs like "mairs office" when he was in buffalo. and where they paint the 300s section numbers on. there is stuff behind that blue wall?

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Oh, that spot.

Yeah, that's the outer wall of the building. Could only add there if you rebuilt the upper half of the building and roof.

The 200 club level is awesome. It's so snazzy, you sometimes forget you're at an arena.

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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hockey Night in Buffalo

yikes. it just seems like they could cut out spaces in that wall, make sure there is some beams left, and add suites. but if theres no ledge, then yeah, thats a no go. i thought there might be a ledge outside. just an idea.

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Hmm...I feel like the Sabres have a enough suites.

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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hockey Night in Buffalo